Why am I so sensitive about this?

[Mishka]

I'm sorry, a bit downer of a thread/question.

I mentioned in another thread that my sex life with my husband leaves much to be desired. We've been over it 100 times...more than that. He knows it's important to me, but he gets tired, or forgets, or just isn't paying attention because he's got something else on his mind. Yes, he does love me and I do love him...but he's left me crying and sobbing over the rejection. The oblivion to making a point to be together. (and yes, I've gone through it all, I'm not too bad at seduction, but if I've been working hard I don't always want to initiate, or ask, or [god forbid] beg.) I don't understand...why do I take it so hard? It's the way he is and nothing I say or do can change it. So why can't I just let it go?

[Guest 91108]

I wish i could give you an honest opinion; but i feel biased. and my answer would not be helpful at this time.
so i wanted you to know that i had seen this post and openly commented.

Take care of yourself Mishka.
I am around if you need an ear .

[OttifantSir]

At the same time this is nothing like my relationship, and then again, it is somewhat like my relationship. (I have had only one, and it's now a thing of the past)

My relationship was to a woman ten years my senior, almost to the day. She had three children (nothing much to do with the situation here, but giving an outline) and thus, she had had more sexual experience than me. (Nothing exceptional about that, as I was still a "virgin" at the time) But what I couldn't wrap my head around then, and still to this day, was how shy she was when having sex. She wanted the lights off, I wanted them on. As much for trying to find my way as for not being so shy. I wanted to try different locations, she mainly wanted it done in the bedroom. I wanted to use toys, she wouldn't have it.

I never got an answer, and probably never will. I can't offer you advice, just consolation in knowing you are not alone, though the circumstances are a bit different.

[DrkRvn]

*hugs* I have been there too at one point.

[learningtopleez]

*huggles Mishka tightly* Oh hun, I'm so sorry that you are feeling so rejected. I can't tel you why your husband behaves this way, and you say the two of you have talked about it. But is he aware that he is causing you pain? Does he know that he has left you crying and sobbing because he is so oblivious? The men I have been with in my life don't forget or get too tired for sex, and I'm not saying that to brag hun....but men....well, they're men! (No offence guys of the forum!) And all men that I have ever known have sex on the brain. Constantly! And not just the men I have been with. It's like...well...it's what men do! It sounds like to me, that the two of you need to have a serious conversation Mishka....one in which you lay down some rules. And if he loves you, and I'm sure he does, then he will respond appropriately! If he doesn't....then you have a lot to think about regarding your relationship.

I wish you luck and much love sweetie!

[Mishka]

Thank you for the replies, and the understanding.

We were such good christians when we met (now not) we waited until the wedding night. He a virgin, me with two other lovers. I should have paid attention in pre-marital counseling. He didn't think much about sex. He thought it was just icing on the cake and not as important as the rest. I saw it as the sugar in the cake. I thought once he had some he would want more and more. It would become just as important, after all, he was a virgin, he'd have a lifetime of exploration with me.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm the one who's selfish. Everything else is mostly fine. I like my life. We just aren't compatible sexually.

[Mishka]

*huggles Mishka tightly* Oh hun, I'm so sorry that you are feeling so rejected. I can't tel you why your husband behaves this way, and you say the two of you have talked about it. But is he aware that he is causing you pain? Does he know that he has left you crying and sobbing because he is so oblivious? The men I have been with in my life don't forget or get too tired for sex, and I'm not saying that to brag hun....but men....well, they're men! (No offence guys of the forum!) And all men that I have ever known have sex on the brain. Constantly! And not just the men I have been with. It's like...well...it's what men do! It sounds like to me, that the two of you need to have a serious conversation Mishka....one in which you lay down some rules. And if he loves you, and I'm sure he does, then he will respond appropriately! If he doesn't....then you have a lot to think about regarding your relationship.

I wish you luck and much love sweetie!

Thanks so much. Yes, he knows. We almost seperated last year. We've had a hundred heart to hearts. He agrees, things are better for a week or two...then back to the same. I spoke with a lawyer when I was considering leaving, he said he's never heard of a man having that attitude towards sex. Most men would love a woman like me who had so much energy and so willing to explore. He thought either my husband was gay or having an affair. Honestly, it's neither. He's just a prude. And forgetful.

[Guest 91108]

ok... i have to butt in again.........

I can't shake the feeling that I'm the one who's selfish. Everything else is mostly fine. I like my life. We just aren't compatible sexually.

that is the first mistake to assume self/one is the problem. i think if you stepped back and would look at the whole more objectively as i have suggested before, you'd see things aren't just " mostly fine" .

Lady, i have high respect for you and i have known you for some time.
so , it is from that perspective/knowledge that i am speaking .

[star_catcher77]

that's a very unfortunate situation...and it sounds like you've already tried and tried...I don't think you're being selfish at all though. Personally, and as a psychologist, I do believe that sex is a large part of life, and how you react to sex has a lot to do with the way you want to live. You're obviously youthful and bursting at the seams with sexual energy, you want to do something with it...I would say that's healthy. As much as you love him, you do have to take care of yourself.

You have a very hard choice; to hurt this man, whom you genuinely love, or to live your life in a subdued, miserable state. I can empathize with how you feel...life without a sexual outlet is not only painful, but bland as well. The fact that you have to experience this from your husband really stirs something inside me. You do have a very hard choice...I have my own opinions as to this, but it really is your decision and you must make it whichever way you choose...but know this; you are definitely not being selfish. I hope you get this all sorted out

Love,
~star

[Echoes]

Thanks so much. Yes, he knows. We almost seperated last year. We've had a hundred heart to hearts. He agrees, things are better for a week or two...then back to the same. I spoke with a lawyer when I was considering leaving, he said he's never heard of a man having that attitude towards sex. Most men would love a woman like me who had so much energy and so willing to explore. He thought either my husband was gay or having an affair. Honestly, it's neither. He's just a prude. And forgetful.

Mishka, you arent the only one, my ex husband wasnt interested in me once we married (I am no longer married but not for those reasons *hugs*) My ex used sex as a control thing he had, not good control but negative control...and he was screwing all my friends on top of it so I found out from a few later. learningtopleez has some good points made there.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm the one who's selfish. Everything else is mostly fine.

I just wanted you to know you arent alone feeling these feelings, others go through this too and not to start hitting on yourself or knocking yourself down. Being hard on yourself is hurting you more hon.
softest hugs
~echoes~

[Mishka]

i think if you stepped back and would look at the whole more objectively as i have suggested before, you'd see things aren't just " mostly fine" .

I try. In most scenarios, whether in my marriage or not, I tend to analyze with reasoning out both sides of the story and where I might be wrong. When I stick up for myself, I've gotten hurt. Not just with my husband. I know how to stand on my own two feet, I'm not a doormat. It's just hard to hurt people you love, and by continuing to have heart to hearts with him the more it hurts him. Not good enough. Not good enough. Not good enough. So when do you just accept it? (I'm stubborn, I don't easily)

Your empathy, from all of you, is very comforting.

[Guest 91108]

I know you keep trying, you just have to decide ... one day.. that either he is making daily effort .. and showing it...
or that choice you don't want... that you have to make a conscious decision that even if it hurts him .. it does more damage to you and rest of family to not do....

[star_catcher77]

I try. In most scenarios, whether in my marriage or not, I tend to analyze with reasoning out both sides of the story and where I might be wrong. When I stick up for myself, I've gotten hurt. Not just with my husband. I know how to stand on my own two feet, I'm not a doormat. It's just hard to hurt people you love, and by continuing to have heart to hearts with him the more it hurts him. Not good enough. Not good enough. Not good enough. So when do you just accept it? (I'm stubborn, I don't easily)

Your empathy, from all of you, is very comforting.

As I said Mishka, it is a very hard choice for you, and that's natural. Is he so important that you will sacrifice your peace of mind for him? The flip side is, are you going do something to help yourself? Doing something to prevent long-term damage to yourself is not selfish. But, no one here can make a decision about that. Why are you so sensitive? because it hurts....it's something important. You're not abnormal to hurt. I think it's safe to say that anyone here would be glad to lend you an ear if you ever need to talk.

Thinking good things about you,
~star

[Guest 91108]

Bows out of the thread.
I feel i am too involved and too opinionated to be of much help.

[OttifantSir]

I'd say you never should, but that's my intellectual opinion, and one I didn't follow myself when I was in my relationship. It finally took me four half liters of beer (a half liter is about a pint) and the combined knowledge of about 300 years of life-experience (a lot of parents and members of an extended family all in their forties to fifties) to make me realise my wrong-doing towards myself and the woman with which I had a relationship. We tried, as it seems you have tried with your husband, talking and talking and talking. But at some point, she would want to talk about everything, trying to analyze it to death for hours. Some of those chats I initiated, about eight or ten of them during a 10-month period, but she would start one almost everytime we met.

I am not saying communication isn't good, I simply say watch out for making communication into a nuisance. Then it will do none of you any good. And maybe at some point you will have to do like me, realise it's dead and cut your losses before your emotional scars get to big.

Please now, this is not meant as critique in any way. This is what I lived through, which to me seems to hold a lot in common with your situation. How you solve it will eventually depend on yourself.

[Mishka]

I don't feel critiqued. I appreciate any and all input and advice.

I hear you, I really do.

[Psynymph]

oh Mishka, darling, oh i know how you feel!!!!

i started a thread some time ago when i first joined this site about almost this same thing. i was married vanilla and not until the last year of our five year relationship did i discover my intense desire to be involved in the bdsm lifestyle. and well...my husband was just vanilla through and through.

for him...sex is just the bonus aspect of a good relationship. he'd have sex with me anytime i asked, but he had no desire really to "spice things up" so to say or to try some of the stuff i was interested in. such as spanking, choking, domination......he thinks the bdsm lifestyle is "fucked up".

but he just expected me to do without it. he can't understand why sex is such a big thing to me. i've flat out told him he doesnt please me in the bedroom anymore and he's just like oh well. but he doesnt want to divorce and he doesn't want an open relationship.

*sigh* it's very frustrating. you feel like it's your fault....because well.....he isn't really doing anything wrong. and it seems like it's your fault because it's your desires that are causing the conflict.

but it's not really anyone's fault, because it's just how we feel.

i'm still struggling with my relationship with my husband. because gawd knows i care about him....but how long can a relationship last where one isn't enjoying sex?

if you ever wanna talk or vent, please feel free to pm me.

xoxo!!!

[phantasy_seeker]

I feel for you, Mishka, truly I do. I'm sure all women have had problems at one time or another regarding lack of attention or obliviousness(sp?) on the part of their men. Sometimes it just hurts so bad that you think 'I've tried to explain to him a hundred times how much it means to me and why and how much he hurts me, but why doesn't he seem to change at all? Does he even care about the fact that he's hurting me? There must be something I'm doing wrong!' And it goes on from there, at least for me.

In your case, it may be a little unusual since the attention that you lack is sexual attention. But I think the concept is the same: many men resist efforts to change them, in fact some resist it so much that the more you try, the worse it becomes. And often they don't want to admit their weaknesses, or seek help in changing even when they want to. He may be trying, and there may be a reason why he is failing but which he doesn't want to explain to you. I'm saying all this because I wanna tell you... don't blame it on yourself! It has nothing to do with YOU, it's normal to take it hard and it's normal to crave satisfaction from your partner.

And also, if telling him 100 times doesn't work, telling him 200 probably won't work either. For things to work out between the both of you, you have to make changes, most likely changes in your approach, or (as unfair as it may seem) in your expectations and needs. Of course, the other option is to make a drastic decision involving the BOTH of you. Personally, I would see that as the extreme, extreme last-ditch resort, but only you can decide.

I hope it'll work out.

[DrkRvn]

I completely disagree phantasy seeker. As someone who has gone through something very similar it doesn't work to try and change yourself, because you are not the root of the problem.

[Ozme52]

What are your (the two of you together and individually) positions on extramarital relationships?

I know this is a sticky subject for many... but as a child of the sixties, I grew up in the 'free love' era and never saw anything wrong with it.

And for someone who loves a vanilla spouse, I see it as an extremely natural avenue for happiness without threatening the otherwise happy marriage.

[phantasy_seeker]

DrkRvn, I never did say that she was the root of the problems. In fact I did say that it was not her fault at all.

However, my advice wasn't based on the logic of 'fairness', but rather on what I felt might help her and bring her happiness. IMHO in relationships you have to give and take, and sometimes even give even when it is actually your turn to receive. Truly, if her spouse had posted here as well, I would have advised HIM to open his eyes to the hurt she was going through and make a much bigger effort to help her! But we can only advise her right now. And if trying several approaches fail, sometimes learning to accept and live with it can bring you greater peace and happiness than blaming yourself for his shortcomings. It is hard, but can be done to a certain degree. Think of all the positive sides of the relationship, the many good things it brings to you. And think, 'would I give up all that for this? is it worth it?' The answer MAY be yes, and it may be no. But either way it is a worthwhile option to consider.

[DrkRvn]

I didn't mean you were saying she was the root. I meant it is the root of the problem that must be fixed. I just don't think you can just cover up what is wrong. The problem will still be there and even if you change it comes back to haunt you, because changing yourself, while maybe you don't think it aloud, it makes you feel more like you are responsible. I tired very hard to change myself, and it never worked, there was always the voice in the back of my head. There have been studies done on things like this. I had a very respected professor of socioligy of sexuality tell me that there was nothing I could do to change myself, because that is not how our bodies work. Unless you have depression or are sick it is very hard just to turn off your sex drive, and denying it can cause all sorts of mental and physical health problems.

[vampyres{ID}]

What are your (the two of you together and individually) positions on extramarital relationships?

I know this is a sticky subject for many... but as a child of the sixties, I grew up in the 'free love' era and never saw anything wrong with it.

And for someone who loves a vanilla spouse, I see it as an extremely natural avenue for happiness without threatening the otherwise happy marriage.

Actually doing something like that has a chance of drawing a non interested partner into the mix, this is considering they agree to the first part. (One of those Ok I took this step I might try another things)

[master 327-834-200]

I have just found this post and it rings so many bells with me. I would love to add my thoughts and feelings as I am in a situation like yours. A mis-match of sexual needs is one of the hardest problems to overcome.

I started my relationship with my wife thinking that the more we got to know each other the easier it would be to overcome these differences. After all we loved each other, had so much in common and had time on our side. But the truth is that I deceived myself and should have been stronger earlier for both our sakes. After a great deal of counselling and soul searching I started to realise that this was always going to make me unhappy and my unhappiness would always then be a barrier between us.

I doubt my words give you any encouragement and I am not sure that being in the midst of sorting this out for myself I would be a good person to advise you but I can say that I know exactly how you feel and the way you are torn between conflicting emotions. What I always struggled with and therefore suppressed was a feeling that to give in to these sexual urges must make me weak and less of a loving husband. I now realise that I was not in any way a freak and that we all have our differing needs. I would gladly join you in this thread to converse and share experiences if you just want to talk with someone who is going through these things.

[_ID_]

Miska, when having sex, is it fulfilling for both you and him? Also, age and status of health may factor into it. Has he always been distant sexually or just now becoming this way? If its something recent (past 2 or 3 years), perhaps he is having an issue he doesn't feel comfortable discussing.

V/R
ID

[Mishka]

What are your (the two of you together and individually) positions on extramarital relationships?

I never thought I would. I'm in an online relationship. I was offered a R/l offer several times, but at the time I felt "forsaking all others" was something I promised. Now, as time goes on, I'm tempted. It would end the marriage for him. He couldn't handle that.

Miska, when having sex, is it fulfilling for both you and him? Also, age and status of health may factor into it. Has he always been distant sexually or just now becoming this way? If its something recent (past 2 or 3 years), perhaps he is having an issue he doesn't feel comfortable discussing.

I have enjoyed sex with him for the most part. I love him so I focus on the good and I have a poor memory, so forgiving and forgetting happens a lot. He has always been very conservative and prudish about sex. When we were first married I grabbed the pillow above my head instead of his arms, he didn't understand why I had done that and thought it was weird. He wouldn't touch me between my legs for eight years. He has briefly tasted me between my legs (about 3 times in 12 years) but as he says "he isn't there yet". Note, I said tasted. Nothing he did could really be called oral sex. Better to have tried than not tried at all. That I have given up on. No sex during the week, we've only recently started doing it at night since the morning is so noisy. (by started I mean once)

Time has passed, he's explored a different position, he has sat down with me and talked about it. However, there was a time he was so incredibly angry with me for complaining about not getting enough he through a chair into the wall...several times. Yes, it was his anxiety and depression talking, there was other things he was upset about, but he took it out on me, it was scary. He doesn't ever want to do that again, he's very angry with himself for losing control. He has gotten angry that I bugged him so much about it. I haven't in a long time because of that. Every time I bring up the subject I get nervous.

Since our reconciliation he has made an excellent effort at trying to build the trust and be reassuring that he won't be losing his temper again. He admits he's prudish but definitely wants to relax about things. The damage is done. I would go a month at a time, craving to be touched and made love to. He didn't care. Age and medication has made things a bit better. But rejection, when I looked forward to it, when we had discussed it (with 3 kids we practically schedule it, which is fine with me), and he blows it off, forgets, is too tired, won't initiate [I'm the top in this relationship, but submission comes much more naturally]...when it happens at all I break down.

I'm sorry this is so long. I've tried to find outlets for my frustrations but rejection hurts any way you slice it. Sometimes I think there might be a purpose in marrying a man with barely a drive. As I get older I could have health problems...and I would be truly heartbroken if I couldn't care for my Lover.

There's enough reasons to stay. As I said, our family works and works well. 1) I would love to have a more open outlet. 2) I wish I could accept that this is the way it is. He can't change me and I can't change him. Maybe it hurt this time because it was a promise broken, he said he would make more effort and didn't.

I need to shut up, I'm just going on and on.

You've all been very helpful.

[master 327-834-200]

There's enough reasons to stay. As I said, our family works and works well. 1) I would love to have a more open outlet. 2) I wish I could accept that this is the way it is. He can't change me and I can't change him. Maybe it hurt this time because it was a promise broken, he said he would make more effort and didn't.

This speaks volumes to me and I think says a lot about how you feel. I wonder if you are truly being honest with yourself or like me deceiving yourself.

[Mishka]

But you haven't left yet?
Do you have kids?
Do other things work?
If that means we're deceiving ourselves...well...I'm speechless. Yet again I go back and forth on what to do, if anything, to even bother, etc.

[master 327-834-200]

I haven't, yet, but you catch me on a day when my future will be decided. I do have kids and I love them without reserve. Other things work perfectly and always have done. The thing for me though is this other thing keeps coming up and no matter what we do to resolve it, it never really changes. Do we bother? What do we do? Each of us has to make our own decisions. But everyone in this world has the right to be happy.

[moptop]

Thanks so much. Yes, he knows. We almost seperated last year. We've had a hundred heart to hearts. He agrees, things are better for a week or two...then back to the same. I spoke with a lawyer when I was considering leaving, he said he's never heard of a man having that attitude towards sex. Most men would love a woman like me who had so much energy and so willing to explore. He thought either my husband was gay or having an affair. Honestly, it's neither. He's just a prude. And forgetful.

Mishka, I have just recently ended a relationship of 6 years. During the last 12-18 months, we had had no sex at all. During the previous years, it had reduced rapidly from the moment we started liviing together, no more than 4-6 times a year (previously it had been at least frequent). We are still living together - still sleeping in the same bed, since it makes no difference - but are separated. As it happens, I am now in the start of a r/l BDSM relationship.

I have been through many, many negative feelings because of this: why doesn't he want to, what's wrong with me, I must be so unattractive, I must be doing it wrong, etc etc. Eventually I realised - having tried many times to talk to him and coax him and seduce him and cajole him and tease him, you name it, including trying to get him to go to counselling with me - that it wasn't me. I wanted sex, I was open and willing to talk and to try to change and learn so as to please him. He just would not open up. I did not discuss it generally because it was after all private between the two of us, but in the end I was so desperate, I had to talk to someone A dear friend of mine just snorted and said "Oh come on - life's too short!"

It takes two: you cannot do all the running; you have the right to be fulfilled and happy. So does he, of course: but you both also have responsibility for yourselves and for your own lives. You are making an effort to improve it: he is not. That is not your fault!

No-one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do. I know what my choice was eventually, but that is not to say that is the right path for you. I really hope you manage to solve it and find happiness and fulfilment, one way or another.