why is the bdsm scene so narrow??

[lucyboy]

Hello everyone. I can't seem to find an appropriate place for this post so I will try here. I hope it isn't in the wrong place.

I apologise for my long winded post but I would just like to see what you guys think about my experience of the bdsm scene. I will give you an idea of my sexual past as it is relevant to my experience.

Also I apologise if my criticism of the bdsm scene angers anyone but I'm being as honest as I can.

I have been submissive all my life ever since I was about 5 years old I loved bossy girls and would follow them around and provoke them into bullying me.

When I was a boy I was very little and I didn't grow or go through puberty until I was 19 or 20, I'm still a short arse but unfortunately not physically smaller than most women anymore.

When I was a kid and a teenager I found that many girls had a natural tendency to be physically rough and enjoy physically bullying me which occasionally had sexual overtones.

I never acted like a boy when I was around them, not like a girl either but definitely not like a boy.

I never played football, climbed trees or pulled girls hair, I sat on the carpet and looked adoringly up at them.

I loved their things. I loved their rooms and their clothes. I was of infatuated and dreamed about the girls I knew and thought about where they were and what they did all the time.

I used to play power games with them in which I was always bossed around and told what to do.

I used to be rude to them so they would pull my hair and beat me up. A few times girls had fun dressing me up, putting makeup on me and treating me like a doll.

I never wanted to feel like a boy or man, sexually I felt genderless.

I felt small sensual and vulnerable which was certainly not a masculine sexuality. (sexually I still feel small, vulnerable and sensual)

Whenever I masturbated I would think about a girl stripping me naked, wrestling me to the floor pinning me down and telling me she was far too strong for me as I begged her to stop.

Being a strong boy or man never felt sexy to me.

I was very disappointed when I became a teenager and realised that the dating game had nothing to do with being imaginative, power games, getting bullied or playing dress up roleplay games.

I never really liked the more adult reality of dating and sex.

Where were all the exciting games??

They seemed to be replaced by social pressures and the bossy girls had been replaced by bashful shy girls that expected me to take the lead!!!!

Luckily when I was around 14 about the same time as I was going through my crisis of confidence with girls I was lucky enough to have a friend who dominated me.

He was the same age as me and it was very erotic.

We where both smooth and not masculine in the slightest.

I loved the feeling of being dominated in a sexual sense to be naked and feel helpless was a revelation, plus I loved his cock.

We would wrestle naked and he would defeat me and make me call him King as I kissed his feet and his erection, it was amazing.

Unfortunately as he grew into a man I found his muscular hairy body a total turn off and every experience with masculinity I have had since has been a catastrophe.

As much as I love erections masculinity is a turn off for me and I'm still left with a deep burning desire for female companionship and sexual attention.

Transvestites are a great halfway house for me and I find them very exciting but I miss women.

I think you can probably see where the evolution of my sexuality comes from.

It was very confusing as an adult not fancying men, being attracted to girls but bored and intimidated by their sexuality and the rules of the dating game.

At the same time I have a cock fetish and growing up with rude comments about gays all around me. Not feeling gay or straight but feeling both.

Sexually I was very confused, not because I didn't know what I wanted but because I couldn't find like minded partners.

All the boys where too masculine and the girls where just so busy conforming to the world of lovey dovey bliss and domestic normality my sexuality was never gonna fit.

So in my early 20's when I found the bdsm scene I thought I had found the place where I belonged, a place to spread my wings.

But I was to be disappointed once again, the bdsm scene suffered from narrow rules and a serious lack of dominant women.

The few Dominant women that I found on the scene where either pro Dommes, old enough to be my mother, seriously overweight or in a long term relationships.

Sex was nothing to do with domination for many of the women I met.

The BDSM scene as a community seemed to be more about paraphernalia (butt plugs, whips, floggers, gas masks), fetish clothing and public play than genuine sexual exploration.

I go to so many munches and meets but it is all about Japanese rope techniques or electro torture and it is filled with goth couples and lonely Dungeons and Dragons enthusiasts. Much more cliquey than I expected and to be honest it can all be a little bit geeky.

I realised the difference in what I'm looking for and what the bdsm community ordain good male subs deserve.

I'm looking for a healthy sexy athletic woman who is looking for a normal equal relationship, apart from sexually! shes the boss in an adventurous sex life that we could both explore.

When I expressed this to people on the scene I was immediately stopped in my tracks.

According to almost everyone I spoke to, I was crazy to expect a relationship with a Domme, insane to think that any Domme would actually choose a submissive as her sexual partner.


Also I noticed that there didn't seem to be any emphasis on the bullying and coercion, the stuff that I so enjoyed as a boy.

The idea that a dominant woman would actually use her strength and her exposed body to physically overpower me was looked on as a nutty idea and highly unlikely.

Subs on the bdsm scene are subs and obedient from the start!! So the rigid rules state.

The pleasure I get from a bossy girl turning me from a willful boy into her obedient wimp was not going to happen.

I enjoy the creation of my submission, the act of being broken by a woman

Being a ready made sub defeats the object the game.

It's being cruelly put in my place and experiencing her physical strength that is the pinnacle of sexual submission for me. All things flow from there. Without it there is nothing but play acting.

It's the memory of what she did to me and how she easily defeated me, how I was helplessly pinned beneath her and how I begged. That gives spice to all the obedience and servitude that follows.

Without that initial act of dominant physicality I lose the essence of the whole scenario.

Going to a dungeon to play Yes Mistress no Mistress games is just far to predictable and impersonal for me.

I have found my sexuality is almost a kind of heresy in the eyes of the bdsm community and it is only a heresy because I'm male.

If I was a female sub I would be actively pursued and desired as a lover and sex toy by both male and female Dominants.

As a guy I'm only worthy of being a human ashtray, domestic servant, public play slave or gift buying money slave.

To look for love, sex, relationships or any kind of equality is beyond the pale for a male sub.

Even all the sexually submissive guys don't want the kind of sex that I consider quite pedestrian really when you compare it to some of the ideas in the BDSM scene like electro torture and scat!!!!.

It seems to be a very unique sexuality for a man to purely love a strong raw dominant female without all the paraphernalia and the title of Mistress.

To be turned on by domesticity, whips, gimp outfits and exclusion from sex is a most common scenario but to actually desire intimacy with a powerful commanding woman is very rare even among subs.

(or maybe most subs in their hearts want nothing more than a strong sexy naked woman to use her body to overpower him before sex but know that it's not going to happen and are afraid to ask for fear of being accused of topping from the bottom etc)

I really don't understand it myself.

To think of all my years dreaming about strong femininity to find the BDSM scene was like finding paradise.

Or so I thought. But to my disappointment I found that what I considered to be part of the BDSM world is not actually excepted as having a place in that scene.

And the problem with that is that the BDSM scene is the only place for submissive men to go.

There is not a place or a community for sub guys who want a sexy imaginative relationship that doesn't involve BDSM and all the narrow confining rules that the BDSM world requires.

It's funny if I wanted a woman who had thousands of pounds worth of dungeon equipment to strap me to a cross and whip me I would be able to find that relatively easily.

But to want an ordinary sexy woman to enjoy teasing me sensually and use the body she was blessed with to hold me down and make me submit to her will, all within a loving (or at the very least sexual) relationship is seen as maybe asking for too much. (Oh and a spot of girly dressing up but what self respecting woman wouldn't enjoy dressing up games??)

Why is a whole lifestyle with expensive paraphernalia and narrow rules so accepted and a desire to have a bit of sensual rough and tumble in bed seen as a nutty idea. Surely my sexuality is far less elaborate, dark and and farout than most BDSM fantasies???

I will never know, the mind boggles.

But I feel positive my Woman is out there somewhere....I hope

I have been told that just wanting dressing up games and bedroom wrestling does not qualify me a submissive.

I have to have a desire to be a human ashtray, endure pain and be excluded from intimacy to qualify as a true sub.

By the rules of the BDSM world I just want kinky sex, which makes me a pervert and a nuisance in the eyes of most dominant women......How cruel

So let me make myself clear, I am sexually submissive, so much so that I find it impossible to have an intimate or sexual relationship with a man, woman transvestite or transsexual unless that person is dominant.

I am completely incapable of having vanilla sex without the spice of domination, this means that I cannot find a partner so it causes allot of anguish at times, so please don't tell me I'm not a sub just because I don't fit into the narrow confines of the bdsm scene.

PS:sorry for the long winded post and please don't reply with anger at my criticisms answer constructively please.

[ceegee{Benz}]

Wow...is all I can say.

least your not scared to express your feelings and that I applaud you.
I Hope that you do find the woman you have been looking for...smiles

tgc and be safe
cg

[_ID_]

I can see where your frustration comes from. There are stereotypes even in the BDSM community. That is what you are encountering.

If I were you, I would just quietly attend the meetings, offering tid bits of your view when asked. Then when that queen you search for shows, you will be able to dazzle her with your understanding of what is going on. so she sees you worthy to be made to feel small by her.

Good luck in your venture.

[cariad]

Lucyboy, I am replying with anger. Anger at those who have made you feel unwanted or unaccepted because your tastes are different from theirs.

You refer to the 'rules' of BDSM - where are these rules, and who wrote them? I know there are certain schools of thought regarding it, and they have their own guidelines, and if you follow those then you can consider yourself to be within their fold. I am yet to hear of any such guidelines covering the whole spectrum of BDSM.

There is perhaps a place elsewhere on the forum for a discussion of some of the different philosophies which lurk under the BDSM umbrella, but this is not it.

I read your post fascinated, you are obviously an intelligent sensitive man who has come to a reasoned assessment of what you desire. I am sure your woman is out there, and when she finds you will be overjoyed at doing so, and it will not matter to either of you what titles others choose to give you.

Hugs and hoping you find this virtual community of real people more accepting than some others you spoken out into.

cariad

[anonymouse]

Hello lucyboy,

I agree with the sentiments of all the previous responders. It is a sad reality that the so-called BDSM 'community' can be just as pedestrian in its collective attitudes at times as any other 'community'. It's my experience that the human herding instinct is such that even within an alternative lifestyle such as BDSM, those who don't run with the herd can sometimes find themselves marginalized. Don't let this get you down but rather, take pride in the fact your particular kink puts you into the realms of the BDSM 'fringe'. Right now you feel as if your kink is unique but be assured, there's an old BDSM maxim called Ugol's Law that essentially says, 'No matter how weird or unusual you think your kink is, there's at least one other person out there somewhere who shares it with you.' Obviously, finding that person isn't always easy.

Something else you might like to consider is BDSM, as an 'alternative lifestyle', is only one of many alternative lifestyles. There is often an overlap between groups as well. You've already experienced the overlap between the goth scene and the BDSM scene. Similar overlaps exist between the BDSM scene and the gay and lesbian scenes as they also do between the swinging scene and BDSM.

From what you say, I feel the woman you seek can likely be found more easily in the swinging scene. However, getting into that scene to start with could be problematic as a single man, though I've heard swingers' clubs (like private BDSM ones) will periodically have 'open nights' that permit single men to attend. If you ask around the fringes of the BDSM scene you may also find somebody who can provide you with an introduction into such a club.

Whatever you decide to do, I'd encourage you to stay in touch with the BDSM scene (and with the people here at this forum in particular). Your kink may be unusual if compared to 'mainstream' BDSM practices, but it's by no means unique.

Incidentally, strong focusses on particular kinks, such as masochism in submissives and 'no sex rules' tends to occur in pockets within the BDSM scene. I've known kinksters in one city where BDSM wasn't regarded as BDSM unless there was a bullwhip involved. In another, piercing and needle play was the prevailing BDSM aesthetic. What I'm saying is simply people within the BDSM scene can sometimes appear quite one-dimensional unless you step back and look at things from a wider perspective.

One final thought. A BDSM relationship really isn't a whole lot different to any other type of relationship. You need to get to know people as people first. If time isn't taken to do this at the outset, what generally happens is your kink becomes your 'identity'. For some people, perhaps many people, this isn't a problem. But, if your kink is something subtle and more complex, you need to clearly establish your own identity outside of your kink, even though it's clear from your post your identity is closely intertwined with who you are as a person. If nothing else, this tactic will give you better defense against ignorant and intolerant people.

Good luck with everything,

anonymouse

[MajesticFae]

I agree with cariad. I am replying with anger, and it's anger to those who made you feel unwanted and like you're not a true submissive. Just because you don't like the toys and whips and the extreme aspects of BDSM doesn't mean by a long shot that you're not a submissive.

In my opinion you've been poisoned against us by a group of "narrow minded bdsmers". BDSM is what -you- choose to make it. I've been a submissve all of my life and am just now getting to really know myself as such. I've always wanted me to throw me down and fuck me senseless, but now spanking and bondage and other things appeal to me too.

And you're completely right that bossy girls turn into shy girls around puberty. I don't know why it happens, but it does. I think it has to do with that old fashioned up bringing that men are somehow superior to women... and that women are supposed to be helpless I can still command a crowd and be bossy and domineering, but I know in my heart that I live to serve.

There are sterotypes in the bdsm world as IDCrewDawg said, but there are many of us who just like living in a world of kink. I think you might be one of us. These people on the forums are nicer than some of my real life friends and I love each and every one of them dearly. Stick around and even post a personal - you might find the woman of your dreams here.

I personally think that to be in a BDSM relationship, you have to realise that the people involved are equals. It takes love and trust and commitment to really make things work.

We all have different kinks that we're in to. From what I understand you want a strong dominating woman to exact her will on you in a sexual way. She doesn't have to humiliate you or stomp on your bits to get you off. I think you're probably the most basic form of a male submissive. I think that's great too.

I wish you lots of love and luck in your search for your perfect woman. I really hope that you find her. And if you choose to stick around here, you might realise what a great bunch of people there are, as I have. You might even find your woman here. Who knows? We might be that group that's completely on the opposite end of the spectrum from the bdsmers that you've met along your journey.

Thank you for voicing your feelings and I hope to see other's opinions on what you have said.

[lucyboy]

Thankyou for you're replies all of you. Wow this is refreshing. Whenever I have raised these subjects on other forums I usually receive a blizzard of anger from Dominant women who assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, and have no idea of what it is to be truly sub.

I live in London UK which I would have thought being such a big modern city would be very open but unfortunately not. It's probably a cultural thing. I'm currently living in Thailand which although lacks a bdsm scene is just so relaxed. If I smile at a woman out here she smiles back whereas in London as a single male you are viewed with suspicion at all times by women on the scene or in the wider vanilla community. Women at home have an air of aloof unapproachability about them, there is about them that vibe that says I'm fabulous and confident so you better be or "don't even bother"

As you can imagine for someone with such a potentially problematic sexuality this makes any chance of having confidence when aproaching women very difficult.

I spose that it is not only London any big western city would be the same. I'm sure the culture in New York or Paris would be the same.

The attitude of most of the women on the bdsm scene I have met has been one of combative selection, whereby you will be made to feel unwelcome until you can prove that you're are either outstandingly masterful or totally submissive from the outset.

I don't know if the no sex rule is only a London thing but it seems you have all encountered this line of thinking. I just wonder why this rule only applies to us male submissives?

A male dom is entitled to have sexual urges, female subs are entitled to desire a sexual core to their submission whether they be lesbian or straight. Female Dommes are expected to have a sexuality although most of the female Dommes I have met reserve sex for vanilla guys or even a dominant male partner.

It only seems to be male subs that have this yolk around our necks. It makes you feel a bit like an untouchable.

Recently I have started dressing up as a girl and I'm not nearly as marginalized. Do you think it might have something to do with guys sexual essence being tied to an active sexuality?

I mean a Dominant or submissive woman can look gorgeous but us blokes don't seem to have that aesthetic quality and without an active sexuality we in some way don't have much to offer. Neither super sexy looks and fabulous clothes or a drive to fuck like a train. Without either asset women lose interest. I'm just speculating. I wonder what you guys think?

I have been told that it is totally biological that female sexuality is so tightly bound to child rearing that subconsciously women only have sexual partnerships with men who can bring some kind of masculinity and strength to the relationship.

It is funny this is not only something unique to the bdsm scene most bisexual women who have profiles on the net start by saying ''NO MEN"

Anyway I'm feeling much more positive since I started dressing as a girl, it seems to be opening doors.....

[diamondcontrol]

Women at home have an air of aloof unapproachability about them, there is about them that vibe that says I'm fabulous and confident so you better be or "don't even bother". . . . The attitude of most of the women on the bdsm scene I have met has been one of combative selection, whereby you will be made to feel unwelcome until you can prove that you're are either outstandingly masterful or totally submissive from the outset. . . . Neither super sexy looks and fabulous clothes or a drive to fuck like a train. Without either asset women lose interest. I'm just speculating. I wonder what you guys think?

I must say I am less sympathetic than the subs who have responded. You complain about Dommes who put out a vibe that says I'm fabulous and confident." Well, it is a natural vibe for a Domme to have. And yes, I will only accept someone equally "fabulous", but you seem to focus on superficial qualities in people. A male sub does not need to have "fabulous" looks or super sexy looks or be a perfect submissive doormat, but he must be a fabulous person - I deserve and will accept nothing less. At the same time that you attribute superficial motives to Dommes who are not interested in you, you dismiss Dommes who are not superficially up to your standards -as too old or too fat. As a Domme who is primarily interested in the mental and sexual aspects of power exchange, I can honestly say perhaps some introspection about less superficial qualities might aid you in your quest.

Diamondcontrol

[MajesticFae]

At the same time that you attribute superficial motives to Dommes who are not interested in you, you dismiss Dommes who are not superficially up to your standards -as too old or too fat. As a Domme who is primarily interested in the mental and sexual aspects of power exchange, I can honestly say perhaps some introspection about less superficial qualities might aid you in your quest.

Diamondcontrol

I think he's looking for a certain type of woman, Diamond, and everyone is allowed to have standards. He wants the one who is athletic, trim and sexy. If he chooses to use these "superficial" qualities to narrow his search, then he will get less results than if he opened up his search to include dominant women of all ages, shapes and sizes. I'm pretty sure he knows this.

I think with the porn industry today we rarely see normal sized females, all we see are these big tittied blondes with super flat stomachs, too much make up and barbie like proportions because that's what the public wants to see. Yes there are other types out there, but this is the type I see most often. I consider myself "thick." I'm in between bbw and stick thin, I like my size because I'm super cuddly and I know that I have a "sexy element" about me and I can command it when need be. Not every female you're going to come across is a size 4 or have a tiny tiny waist. It's just not going to happen. But if it is your dream to find this perfect woman who is athletic, trim, sexy, and all that jazz, then please, look for her. It might take you longer to find her because you're narrowing your search down to one type of person.
The Domme with the right mindset for you may not fit into your physical preferences in the woman, and the woman who fits the body image may be completely off in the mindset that you're looking for. Give and take a little. Get to know peoples minds before their bodies.

Being that I'm not a Domme, I can't speak for them, but there is nothing sexier than a man, no matter his shape, size, physical appearance who can think for himself and is willing to please you. I swoon over the intellectual types. I have my standards when seeking out a Dom for myself, if you can't captivate me with your words, you're an automatic out.

I truly hope you find what you're looking for, lucyboy. I somewhat agree with Diamond in that you're living in a sort of fantasy in looking for the woman who has all of these qualities rolled into one (mindset, physical appearance, personality), but if you believe she's out there, then I really hope you two find one another and click.

[gloombunny]

I just wonder why this rule only applies to us male submissives?

Because there are a lot of bad apples in that barrel. Guys who want to be spanked or humiliated a bit but want to be in control of both the sex and the relationship. Guys who think dominant women are sexy but don't respect them as people. That sort of thing. Unfortunately the deck is stacked against you from the start because of them, and it's hard to prove you're not one of them except by being deeply submissive in all aspects and not trying to get any sex.

Neither super sexy looks and fabulous clothes or a drive to fuck like a train. Without either asset women lose interest. I'm just speculating. I wonder what you guys think?

I think you don't know very many women. Or maybe you do, but in that case I'm glad I don't know the women you know.

I have been told that it is totally biological that female sexuality is so tightly bound to child rearing that subconsciously women only have sexual partnerships with men who can bring some kind of masculinity and strength to the relationship.

You've been told a lot of crap.

It is funny this is not only something unique to the bdsm scene most bisexual women who have profiles on the net start by saying ''NO MEN"

Same bad-apple problem. So many men read "bisexual" as "will have threesomes and put on shows for me" that a lot of women just don't want to bother trying to find one who doesn't.

[nightsilver]

MajesticFae and diamondcontrol, I think his desire for a younger and athletic woman was so that she would physically be able to control him through her strength and endurance. Thus her body type is an extension of her personality.

Lucyboy, I wouldn't rule out the pleasantly plump dommes either. She may have a nice set of toned muscles underneath that you haven't noticed. For the most part it sounds like you have been running into dommes that prefer cuckolding more than anything.

[MajesticFae]

MajesticFae and diamondcontrol, I think his desire for a younger and athletic woman was so that she would physically be able to control him through her strength and endurance. Thus her body type is an extension of her personality.

Makes sense. =) I understood that but apparently didn't manage to convey it in my post! Whoops!

[lucyboy]

I'm not being as superficial as you think. I'm not looking for skinny athletic young blonde women.

The bigger the better, I like nothing more than a woman with unusualy thick legs as long as she is not very fat and unhealthy.

I fancy women of all shapes and sizes the only things that turn me off are obesity, being too weak skinny waif like and unhealthy. Or as old or older than my mum.

I love older women but I have a limit thats all.

I don't think these are really very outrageous preferences, I don't fancy blondes more than brunettes, I'm open to most things! the size of bust isn't important to me big or small it doesn't matter, I love pale skin, tanned bodies, black women, oriental, Indochinese, fiery Celtic redheads. Damn the world is a wonderfull place

In my search I have tried relationships with an obese Domme (who was the most wonderful woman sexually and mentally) and had a relationship with a 60 year old Domme which is older than my mum, the problem was I wasn't sexually attracted to them.

I wanted dearly to be attracted to the big woman I was with but my mind and body was not co operating.

Surely it is most important that I don't waste mine or other peoples time by pursuing relationships which are bound to fail??

Diamondcontrol, thankyou for you're reply. It is one thing being selective and knowing you're fabulous intelligent and in demand.

That is fine, I know I'm fabulous intelligent and good looking, unfortunately not in demand lol

It is another thing being aloof cold and unwelcoming which seems to be the default setting for male female interaction in western society as a whole and is magnified on the bdsm scene.

I understand it is partly due to scary pervy single men turning up and drooling, who wants to be around people like that.

The problem is there really is nothing in the way many Dommes act that says they have any interest in sub men other than as doormats, whether it be financial or domestic.

The most welcoming of Dommes are usually looking for a public play slave but this usually has nothing to do with sex or relationships. It's a scene thing.

I'm just speculating but I think this cold unwelcoming selectiveness is in part due to the biological fact that females select and men compete to be chosen.

In our society it is magnified by a hangover to our recent religious past that said sex was bad.

Then add the default play hard to get role that vanilla women subconsciously adopt, then fire the whole thing up with glamorous celebrity culture "because I'm worth it" and with feelings of absolute power that comes from being a Dominant woman who is in demand and you have a recipe for unapproachability and occasionally cruelty and arrogance.

All this in alternative community where most of us are struggling to find what we want and are looking for acceptance.

Just as you say I'm being too picky by expecting this or not wanting that. I have to say that the aloof selectiveness of most Dommes has meant they have missed out on getting to know a wonderful little man....... ME!!!

I'm a trained Thai masseur, a fantastic cook...no no an absolutely fantastic cook.

I have the best record collection money can buy, I read many books and love to have intelligent conversation. I'm in touch with my feminine side and my emotions. But I'm very confident masculine in manner and looks (when not dressed as a girl) and assertive in everyway apart from with people I'm sexually attracted to

I love tidying and cleaning, I'm fit and good looking and I love buying shoes, sexy womens clothes and make up, nothing better than a girly night in trying on clothes and drinking wine. Not a bad catch for any woman me think's...The best of both worlds

lol lol lol

Anyway enough already.

I hope you all understand I'm not really as picky as I sound and everything I have said is just me trying to workout a very difficult situation in my mind, so no need for anger.

I don't know you Diamondcontrol you might be the friendliest and most welcoming Domme in the world, but if you're not maybe after reading this you could smile and say "hello come and join us" when you see a shy single man at a munch or a party.

You never know he might be the most fabulous person you have ever met. lol

PS:Please forgive me but I would like to ask you a personal question Diamondcontrol is you're dominance sexual? and if so do you extend that sexuality to male submissives????

[diamondcontrol]

lucyboy, I think what everyone is trying to convey to you, it that your sour attitude may be colouring your perceptions of the Dommes you encounter as well as their perceptions of you.

PS:Please forgive me but I would like to ask you a personal question Diamondcontrol is you're dominance sexual? and if so do you extend that sexuality to male submissives????

Since you asked, yes, my dominance is sexual, and it definitely extends to male subs. To be blunt, I like having male cock in me and expect my sub's cock to be put to good use for my pleasure. A sub's role is to serve his Domme - for me that includes providing the Domme with sexual services. Since my vanilla life is quite demanding, I have no desire to micromanage a doormat.

I think if asked most single sub men would love their Domme to allow them intimacy and sex, they just resign themselves to playing second fiddle to her real lover because that is all their Domme is willing to offer.

You are wrong about this. In my own explorations, I have communicated with many single sub men. I have had to weed MANY of them out because they have little desire to serve sexually - and that is an essential requirement for me. Some are not what I consider submissive - they have their particular kinks or fetishes which they want a Domme to fulfill - but have no real desire to submit and serve (i.e. put HER pleasure first). Others are so into being feminized, they have no interest in sexually penetrating a Domme. Still others find they lose their submissive headspace if their cock receives pleasure. In fact I was speaking with a sub earlier today who seeks the emasculation and humiliation he feels when his cock is completely ignored in the D/S relationship.

The point is that it doesn't matter if many or even most are not what you seek. The trick is to find the few Dommes who are compatible, and to display an attitude which won't cause them to reject you out of hand.

Diamondcontrol

[MajesticFae]

Thanks for clearing up a few misconceptions I had about you. You sound utterly fabulous. Here, you get a cookie. *hands lucyboy a cookie*

[lucyboy]

Hi NatalieD, thankyou for you're reply. I understand there are allot of weird wankers out there and it only makes sense to guard against that.

But to condemn all sub men to total fawning submission when for allot of us it is a sexual thing not a life controlling certainty. And to decide that because there are wankers out there the men you desire will be frozen out of sex and intimacy, just incase they are wankers!!!!!

Anyway I don't think that dodgy perverts is the only reason that Dommes have the "no sex" rule for male subs because many Dommes are quite happy to have sex with dom guys or vanilla men, it's only the subs who are excluded almost universally.

It seems to me that my quote about feminine biology and primal sexuality might have more to say about this than you think.

Also allot of the Dominant women I have talked to never grew up with an urge to dominate guys and have erotic dreams and desires that involve having their sexual partner at their mercy.

Many Dommes I have met where introduced to the bdsm scene later in life and enjoyed the power, the sense of community, the clothes, the equipment, the techniques and the amazing effect that this all has on sub men but sexually they don't fancy sub guys and still look for alpha male between the sheets.

This is not to say that all Dommes are like this, not by a long chalk but there is definitely allot of women on the scene who actually exclude submissive men from sex because they are not sexually attracted to them.

When you said

''I think you don't know very many women. Or maybe you do, but in that case I'm glad I don't know the women you know."

I think you're being unfair, I'm just speculating on why submissive guys exclusively are excluded from sex.

And I think it is a fair point to say that it is probably masculine active sexuality that attracts women to men and seeing that many sub men lack the desire to be active and masculine in bed and don't have wonderful outfits and a sexy femininity to keep the attraction we tend to find that we are marginalized.

It explains it better than just saying there are allot of perverts out there.

Sexual urges are a powerful thing, the sheer number of scary men is not enough to override the sexual urges of submissive females or for that matter Domme women.

It's quite plainly not about men being obsessed by sex and wanting to filter out the dangerous perverted dodgepots. If it was the "no sex" rule would apply across the board to all men as we can see it is reserved to sub men, potentially the least dangerous and worrying of the lot.

I just wish if Dommes don't find sub men attractive and are only are looking for a man to beat and do domestic duties they would be totally honest about it then I can avoid them.

With all due respect to the Dommes out there I think all men should avoid such Dommes because attraction should be essential to all relationships whether they are subDom or vanilla.

Why spend you're life living a lie, better to submit to a woman who finds you attractive and gets turned on by dominating you. The feeling should be mutual.

Or am I being to picky again??? Is this breaking rule number 1!!!!! NO SUB SHALL TOP FROM THE BOTTOM??????

My god what a mine field I never know if I'm saying the wron thing

[Dragon's muse]

I just wish if Dommes don't find sub men attractive and are only are looking for a man to beat and do domestic duties they would be totally honest about it then I can avoid them.

With all due respect to the Dommes out there I think all men should avoid such Dommes because attraction should be essential to all relationships whether they are subDom or vanilla.

Why spend you're life living a lie, better to submit to a woman who finds you attractive and gets turned on by dominating you. The feeling should be mutual.

Or am I being to picky again??? Is this breaking rule number 1!!!!! NO SUB SHALL TOP FROM THE BOTTOM??????

My god what a mine field I never know if I'm saying the wron thing

Okay, getting here late for the party, but let me wade in anyway. You say that you think ALL MEN should avoid these types of Dommes. What if that type of Domme is exactly what a sub man is looking for? When did you acquire the right or ability to speak for all sub men?

Not every sub man is looking for exactly the same thing you are, and to dismiss other's relationships as "living a lie" just because it would not meet your needs is a bit egocentrical.

Best of luck to you and i sincerely hope you find what it is that you want.

[lucyboy]

Why thankyou MajesticFae, I'm blushing

[gloombunny]

This is starting to sound like one of those "why don't women like nice guys?" rants.

[lucyboy]

I didn't say that, I said why do Dominant women only exclude sub men from sex and intimacy?

Surely as Dominant women submissive men should be way up their list as potential partners not relegated to "NO NEVER" "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT"

The fact that dom guys don't have this imposed on them and many Dominant women (who exclude sub men) will have sex with vanilla or dom men shows that it has little to do with filtering out perverts and wankers.

Unless most slimy wankers happen to be submissive which I doubt. The kind of guys you were talking about who are looking for threesomes and shows are usually chest thumping alpha males not the kind of guys to pluck up the courage to admit they are submissive.

Do you think I'm saying, dominant guys and vanilla guys are always bad, submissive guys are always good???

Have you been reading my posts??????????

I'm just politely trying talking about my situation and speculating about the whys and wherefores of the restrictions and limits that only seem to apply to men with submissive sexualities.

I'm not even moaning or upset, I'm far too accustomed to my situation for that. I'm just exploring what for me is still a confusing situation.

If this makes you uncomfortable I apologise. You don't have to read my posts, but if you do contribute please read my posts carefully as you're interpretation of what I'm writing is wrong and you are acting very defensively when all I'm doing is talking about my experiences.

Try being constructive not combative.

[gloombunny]

I guess you aren't familiar with the "women don't like nice guys" meme, then?

It's a kind of rant/whine frequently seen online, where some guy who has no luck with women complains that they only want jerks and pretty faces, when really he never gets any because instead of making his intentions clear he just acts friendly and comforting while secretly expecting to be rewarded with affection and sex. And when the woman he's been befriending hooks up with some other guy who actually asked her out or whatever, he gets all passive-aggressive and complains that women have bad taste in men, that she was leading him on (even if she never even knew that he wanted to get in her pants), and similar crap.

I'm not saying you're doing that.

What I am saying is that I'm seeing the same kind of blanket generalizations, the same sense of entitlement, and the same indignant self-pity that characterize those "nice guys".

[lucyboy]

I haven't generalized I even said not all Dommes are like that by a long chalk and I have gone out of my way not to say many, not most or all Dommes but many Dommes have a no sex for sub men rule.

You are acting as if I have said something you don't like? Have I touched a nerve?

If I have tell me the problem you have with what I have said instead of sniping with sly comments or trying to write me of as a self pitying loser.

You don't know me I'm a very successful and confident person, I might have difficulty finding a partner but rest assured I'm not the kind of person who is self pitying.

If you don't have something constructive to say why bother posting at all????

[Rhabbi]

lucyboy,

First off, let me say that just because your local community is narrow does not mean that everyone is narrow. My time in the "lifestyle" has taught me that there is something for everyone, but a lot of people give up because they cannot find it. I know there are young women who are in shape that would like to meet someone like you. There are a few here. They want a physical struggle, and they want to win that struggle. They do want to dominate through force, just like some men like to dominate through force. This thread raised some interesting points, and I will let some people know about it, and you. Perhaps something will come of it. But do not give up just because it does not happen quickly, relationships take time. If you want a relationship, be prepared to invest it.

[nk_lion]

Hey lucyboy, I read your thread when it first came out and I decided to not post since I really couldn't offer any suggestions. But I did think about it, and had the initial perception that you were after the slim attractive kind of domme. You clarified that point later, but the point is that the way you worded it gave me and others that assumption. The way you also stated that dommes were only interested in ashtray type male subs also lead me to think that perhaps you had the misfortune that you only ended up meeting a particular kind of domme, or that you simply gave up to easily.

I'm not a psychologist, nor do I claim to have a high intellectual level in deciphering the human mind, but I feel that perhaps you might want to try the aggressive sub approach where you go for someone who you think you may be attracted to. I'm a switch, and never entertained the thought of being a sub only, till some members who were so increadibly submissive in nature while talking to me which led me to realize that I could perhaps one day be a dom only person.

NatalieD is merely giving her advice. I don't think she is insulting you in anyway. I actually think she raised a valid point on the whole nice guy bit. I know that in the first two years in high school, I pretty much fit that description, and later became more aggressive in pursuing relationships which was a lot more successful.

Anyway, just my two cents. I sincerely wish you the best of success with your search.

[lucyboy]

Why thankyou Rhabbi, that is very kind of you. I have been pursuing my dreams for too long to give up now.

I have been told I can post a personal here but I can't findout how to do it. I tried to post a pic a few times and it just came up with an error message.

Sometimes websites are designed all arsewise lol

I hope you didn't design it, if so I retract that comment.

Thanks again.

[Rhabbi]

Why thankyou Rhabbi, that is very kind of you. I have been pursuing my dreams for too long to give up now.

I have been told I can post a personal here but I can't findout how to do it. I tried to post a pic a few times and it just came up with an error message.

Sometimes websites are designed all arsewise lol

I hope you didn't design it, if so I retract that comment.

Thanks again.

Not me, lol. As for the personal, try here:
bdsmlibrary.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11

[nightsilver]

lucyboy, NatalieD is trying to be helpful for you. She is just approaching things from a different perspective. She initially wanted you to realize something about the rest of the male subs and thus why the Dommes around you may have such a slanted view on their male subs. Then when you listed how you are a good guy, it took the air of "nice guy" rant because you were showing you were a nice guy thus it isn't your fault that you cannot get a Domme.

NatalieD was trying to point out how she is viewing how your presention of yourself. Regardless of if you are using "blanket generalizations", have "the same sense of entitlement, and the same indignant self-pity that characterize those 'nice guys,'" it may be helpful to consider why she (and perhaps otehrs) view you in this way.

The things we hate to see about ourselves are negative, but if we don't know about them we cannot strive to fix them and become a better person.

Like nk_lion, I do not think NatalieD was trying to insult you although it is hard to not be offended when someone points out possible negatives (be it personality, in writing, art, etc.).

[lucyboy]

Ok it sounds like you guys know NatalieD well and know she isn't being the spiteful Domme.

I apologise NatalieD, I'm just so used to getting a negative response from Dommes when I raise this subject like I'm upsetting the status quo and should keep my mouth shut.

lucyboy slinks away with her tail between her legs

[anonymouse]

lucyboy,

You wrote this earlier:

Thankyou for you're replies all of you. Wow this is refreshing. Whenever I have raised these subjects on other forums I usually receive a blizzard of anger from Dominant women who assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, and have no idea of what it is to be truly sub.

and later this:

I'm just so used to getting a negative response from Dommes when I raise this subject like I'm upsetting the status quo

Given that you've apparently broached your question in more than one other forum before here and that, by your own admission, you've stirred a lot of anger in dominant women, may I ask why you chose to post your question into the 'Questions for a Master/Mistress' forum? What I mean is, your question is one that is probably best answered by a submissive man. Have you spoken with other submissive men about your situation?

It seems to me that your experiences have all been with dominant women and, to a degree, you've approached them with the expectation they'd be hostile and "have no idea of what it is to be truly sub" (your words). You've said the same thing in various ways numerous times throughout this thread. Similarly, you've said you cannot understand a D/s dynamic in which sexual and/or physical attractiveness isn't a factor, and that's fine. Sex versus no-sex in BDSM relationships is often debated. There is no one answer and to speak in universals such as all Dommes or true submissives is something to avoid, unless you're looking to start an argument.

I'm not suggesting you're whole intent here was to start an argument but again I ask, why didn't you seek the answer to your question from fellow submissives when you plainly admit dominants have not been able to supply you with a satisfactory and sympathetic response? When I first read Natalie's response to you I was taken aback by her blunt answer. But, that's her manner and I have no issues with that. I happen to be a sucker for 'nice' men however, I don't like being played for a fool either.

That said, if you're genuine (and I'll continue to assume you are) I still think you'd have better luck in the swingers' scene. By its very nature, the swinging scene attracts women who enjoy sex and aggressively pursue it. Since sex seems to be the primary focus of your search and since BDSM doesn't always focus on sex, it seems logical then that your odds of success would be better in the swingers scene. That's my honest opinion, anyway.

Good luck!

anonymouse

[gloombunny]

Ok it sounds like you guys know NatalieD well and know she isn't being the spiteful Domme.

Heh. I'll admit to the insulting - I'm sure I could've phrased the things I said a lot more politely - but I don't think I'm being spiteful, and I'm definitely not a domme.