Easter Questions

[denuseri]

And just an FYI.....not all the crucified were killed in exactly the same manner. Ideally one suffocated after days of suffering. If they really were being viscous suffocation was prevented by different placement like being slanted back at a 45 degree angle. The legs being tucked up under with the heals pointing up was particularly painful and would cause lots of muscle cramping and squirming around apparently. Sometimes one died from exposure other times the Romans got bored and just speared them. Some had their legs broken to hasten the death (not out of mercy but because they wanted to make sure they were dead or would be after the guards had to be leaving the area).

In some cases (especially in regions were the Romans were trying to placate or mollify wide scale rebellion) local cultural practices prevailed and the bodies were allowed to be removed after a time for burial. Though in the Biblical account one must remember there was an eclipse and an earthquake during the event and the Romans themselves were big on augury (they invented the word lol) and perhaps decided the wiser course was not to further anger the gods by leaving one of their favored hanging.

[Thorne]

And just an FYI.....not all the crucified were killed in exactly the same manner. Ideally one suffocated after days of suffering. If they really were being viscous suffocation was prevented by different placement like being slanted back at a 45 degree angle. The legs being tucked up under with the heals pointing up was particularly painful and would cause lots of muscle cramping and squirming around apparently. Sometimes one died from exposure other times the Romans got bored and just speared them. Some had their legs broken to hasten the death (not out of mercy but because they wanted to make sure they were dead or would be after the guards had to be leaving the area).

All quite true, and gruesome. An item I saw on TV the other day talked about the only known relic of a crucifixion, the heel bone of a first century criminal (NOT Jesus) with a nail through the heel. It was placed in an area which missed all major blood vessels, but struck a major nerve cluster. Excruciatingly painful in and of itself, you also have to remember that the victim would have had his legs bent, as described above, forcing him to push up against that nail in order to lift himself and allow himself to breath. Usually, the only reason for spearing them was to make sure they were, indeed, dead, not to ease their suffering. And breaking the legs only insured that they could NOT push up any longer, and thus suffer slow, painful, terrifying suffocation. Try hanging from your arms, outstretched as in a crucifixion, to see how difficult it is to get a breath. And as the muscles in the diaphragm become over worked, each breath becomes painful as well. It was truly a horrific way to die, and designed to last for days. Yet Jesus supposedly died within short hours. Something doesn't scan there.

In some cases (especially in regions were the Romans were trying to placate or mollify wide scale rebellion) local cultural practices prevailed and the bodies were allowed to be removed after a time for burial. Though in the Biblical account one must remember there was an eclipse and an earthquake during the event and the Romans themselves were big on augury (they invented the word lol) and perhaps decided the wiser course was not to further anger the gods by leaving one of their favored hanging.

Yes, they may have allowed them to remove the body, after he was dead, but it's doubtful they would have done anything to hasten his death. And there is no archeological, historical or astronomical evidence for an eclipse or earthquake at that time. And if you try to claim "miracle" you would have to account for the fact that no other records of an earthquake have ever been found, and that a solar eclipse which was NOT predicted by the astronomers (who were very good at that by this time) would have achieved widespread notoriety, not only in Judea. Like so many other things in the Bible, these "auguries" seem to have been completely imaginary. Though the death of their leader might have caused the Apostles to feel as if their world had been rocked and that the light had gone out of their lives, it just never happened in reality.

[denuseri]

All quite true, and gruesome. An item I saw on TV the other day talked about the only known relic of a crucifixion, the heel bone of a first century criminal (NOT Jesus) with a nail through the heel. It was placed in an area which missed all major blood vessels, but struck a major nerve cluster. Excruciatingly painful in and of itself, you also have to remember that the victim would have had his legs bent, as described above, forcing him to push up against that nail in order to lift himself and allow himself to breath. Usually, the only reason for spearing them was to make sure they were, indeed, dead, not to ease their suffering. And breaking the legs only insured that they could NOT push up any longer, and thus suffer slow, painful, terrifying suffocation. Try hanging from your arms, outstretched as in a crucifixion, to see how difficult it is to get a breath. And as the muscles in the diaphragm become over worked, each breath becomes painful as well. It was truly a horrific way to die, and designed to last for days. Yet Jesus supposedly died within short hours. Something doesn't scan there.

He was scourged and beaten prior to the the event...subsequent blood loss from a scourging left completely untreated is probably what killed him so soon comparatively.


Yes, they may have allowed them to remove the body, after he was dead, but it's doubtful they would have done anything to hasten his death.

In some texts they were about to break his legs along with the others and didn't because one of the guards said he was already dead and decided to prove his point by piercing his side with his spear.

And there is no archeological, historical or astronomical evidence for an eclipse or earthquake at that time.

All the bible currently claims is it was unnaturally dark (even mentioning thunder) despite it being mid day which could have simply been a dark storm front passing through.

As for the earthquake....I haven't seen any evidence what so ever that there wasn't a small quake on that day in the region.

And if you try to claim "miracle" you would have to account for the fact that no other records of an earthquake have ever been found, and that a solar eclipse which was NOT predicted by the astronomers (who were very good at that by this time) would have achieved widespread notoriety, not only in Judea. Like so many other things in the Bible, these "auguries" seem to have been completely imaginary. Though the death of their leader might have caused the Apostles to feel as if their world had been rocked and that the light had gone out of their lives, it just never happened in reality.

The only people who will ever know for sure are all gone now anyways...the rest of us will have to believe or not based solely on our faith in their account of events.

All of which is beside the point. The op isn't asking us if Jesus lived or not; only what Easter is about.

[Thorne]

He was scourged and beaten prior to the the event...subsequent blood loss from a scourging left completely untreated is probably what killed him so soon comparatively.

Unlikely. The Romans were pretty skilled at such things, and their ultimate objective was for the condemned to die slowly. Still, I suppose it's possible.

As for the earthquake....I haven't seen any evidence what so ever that there wasn't a small quake on that day in the region.

I haven't seen any evidence that it wasn't caused by a flying saucer, either. A lack of evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it does bring the subject into doubt. And if, as you claimed in your earlier posts, the Romans looked upon these signs as auguries, they would have to have been something more than a small quake and a thunderstorm.

The only people who will ever know for sure are all gone now anyways...the rest of us will have to believe or not based solely on our faith in their account of events.

Well we certainly agree about that! I'm just not willing to put my faith in people who gleefully admit that they are little more than evil sinners in the eyes of their gods! Especially when they are trying to convince me that I'm just like them.

All of which is beside the point. The op isn't asking us if Jesus lived or not; only what Easter is about.

Well, since the celebration of Easter, for Christians at least, is all about the death and resurrection of Jesus, I don't think that questioning the validity of the stories to be beside the point.

[denuseri]

I haven't seen any evidence that it wasn't caused by a flying saucer, either. A lack of evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it does bring the subject into doubt. And if, as you claimed in your earlier posts, the Romans looked upon these signs as auguries, they would have to have been something more than a small quake and a thunderstorm.

You would think so right? But No... in reality even something as small as seeing 7 birds fly over the capitol city from east too west was taken as a sign by the Augers.


Well we certainly agree about that! I'm just not willing to put my faith in people who gleefully admit that they are little more than evil sinners in the eyes of their gods! Especially when they are trying to convince me that I'm just like them.


Well, since the celebration of Easter, for Christians at least, is all about the death and resurrection of Jesus, I don't think that questioning the validity of the stories to be beside the point.

Its not all about that alone...its actually more specifically a re-defining of the Jewish Passover by the early Christians who were Jewish (later exported by Paul and others through the Roman world). And outside of one obscure Germanic inter-relation that according to actual historical texts (at least so far as Ive been able to find at this point) is not a direct adaptation of a pagan ritual in any way so much as Saxon peoples associating the word Easter with one of their already "old gods" at the time from the 800's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter Not a bad layman's reference here btw.

[Thorne]

its actually more specifically a re-defining of the Jewish Passover by the early Christians who were Jewish

Yes, Passover, the celebration of another fictional event. Don't get me started!

[thir]

Yes, Passover, the celebration of another fictional event. Don't get me started!

Well, they are not still in Egypt. So they got out, somehow, right?