Burka Rage

[Ozme52]

I wonder, though, if they would be allowed to carry them onto planes, or into government buildings. Or even if they should. Even a one inch blade could puncture an artery, or take out an eye.

So can a plastic spoon. It's irrelevent.

But even so, carrying such an item does not obscure ones identity. I'm not sure how you could have a "symbolic" covering that didn't cover the face, when many Muslim women are not permitted to show so much as an eyelash in public.

Then those who do (voluntarily) can't fly or agree to reveal themselves privately to a female TSA agent.

Again, I argue for freedom of choice, for oneself, and not for those who would impose their will on others.

[Thorne]

I argue for freedom of choice, for oneself, and not for those who would impose their will on others.

Freedom of choice is noble, certainly, but we place restrictions on people's choices every day. People are not permitted to walk around naked in public, though they may choose to do so in private. Restaurants can refuse service to anyone they deem improperly dressed ("No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"). The speed you "choose" to drive a vehicle is limited by the law. If these choices can be restricted, why not the ability to cover ones face?

Then those who do (voluntarily) can't fly or agree to reveal themselves privately to a female TSA agent.

Exactly. They are not permitted to fly, so their choice is limited. Or they can reveal themselves to the proper authorities, under controlled conditions. That's a reasonable compromise. But that might not be an option when entering a bank or a store.

[leo9]

Freedom of choice is noble, certainly, but we place restrictions on people's choices every day. People are not permitted to walk around naked in public, though they may choose to do so in private. Restaurants can refuse service to anyone they deem improperly dressed ("No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"). The speed you "choose" to drive a vehicle is limited by the law. If these choices can be restricted, why not the ability to cover ones face?

I would believe in this if the call were for a ban on all face-hiding costumes, such as dark-visor motorcycle helmets. Some sensitive locations, such as banks, require people to take off such helmets and pull down hoods at the entrance, and with good reason. If someone wanted to argue for extending this to all public places, I would still think it an over-reaction, but at least I would believe it was honestly about public safety.

In the Caribbean area of Leeds where I once lived, the young gangstas used to hang out on the street corners in "ninja masks" - hoods plus bandanas over the lower face (and shades too, usually). It was calculatedly intimidating, giving out the message that they could do what they liked because they couldn't be named. I never heard anyone campaign to make that illegal, though the justification would be far stronger; they weren't maybe hiding a criminal, they were known criminals.

When one particular group's freedom is restricted while other equally valid targets are ignored, that's dishonest. If the target group is ethnically defined, it's textbook racism.

[Thorne]

When one particular group's freedom is restricted while other equally valid targets are ignored, that's dishonest. If the target group is ethnically defined, it's textbook racism.

You are absolutely correct, leo. My comments were, like yours, intended for places of business, such as banks or stores, not for in public places. I know here in SC you are also required to remove motorcycle helmets and hoods in banks, even sunglasses and hats which conceal the face. I have heard (although I've not experienced it personally) that Halloween-type masks are not permitted in public on adults. But again, those restrictions apply to everyone, not a particular group.