Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[DuncanONeil]

So as I understand what you said, profit is a bad thing!! Fortune ranks the insurance industry at 47 out of 53 in profits related to revenue (-3% for 2008). Top of that list was Network and Other Communications Equipment at 20.4%. Yahoo finance has accident and health insurance ranked 59th for 2010 with a profit margin of 6.7% about half the return for Railroads.
The numbers say there is not a lot of profit to be had here.

It is the case that they are not a new risk but that doesn't help if the insurance company can factor the old risk into the cost of the new plan, which is not prevented by law. Also depending on the disease by most standards the higher rate can be outrageous. If the cost of care that the company knows the client will need is $1200/month with the potential to rise, they aren't going to offer a policy that costs less than $2000/month.

And even $1200/month on medical insurance is beyond many's ability to pay. That's basically a choice of paying the rent(or mortgage) or paying for health care for a lot of Americans.

[SadisticNature]

So as I understand what you said, profit is a bad thing!! Fortune ranks the insurance industry at 47 out of 53 in profits related to revenue (-3% for 2008). Top of that list was Network and Other Communications Equipment at 20.4%. Yahoo finance has accident and health insurance ranked 59th for 2010 with a profit margin of 6.7% about half the return for Railroads.
The numbers say there is not a lot of profit to be had here.

I'm saying that deciding that medical care that is a matter of life and death should belong in the private for profit industry is what is wrong. Denial of life-saving treatment on the basis of affordability is awkward, and its a symptom of having life-saving medical care being handled by a private insurance industry rather than a government plan.

I think profit is actually a wonderful thing, I've run businesses before and I sold a decent start-up, and every business I got into was profitable. But I would not run a business that profited by denying individuals things I consider basic human rights. I would also like to live in a country where things that were basic human rights were not denied to people.

As for not a lot of profit for the industry, they rank the industry as a sector, which includes all of the various non-profits that attempted to provide services to those who couldn't otherwise get them, and went bankrupt doing so.

Note that you are putting words in my mouth here. The equivalent counterargument would be me claiming you value profit so much you'd sacrifice every moral, belief, relative, ideal and value you have all in the name of the almighty dollar. I don't think that is the case about you, and you shouldn't think the fact that I don't believe in putting profit ahead of human rights means that I think profit is bad.

[DuncanONeil]

Insurers do not decide treatment! The merely agree to pay or not pay. The decision is yours not theirs!

I'm saying that deciding that medical care that is a matter of life and death should belong in the private for profit industry is what is wrong. Denial of life-saving treatment on the basis of affordability is awkward, and its a symptom of having life-saving medical care being handled by a private insurance industry rather than a government plan.

I think profit is actually a wonderful thing, I've run businesses before and I sold a decent start-up, and every business I got into was profitable. But I would not run a business that profited by denying individuals things I consider basic human rights. I would also like to live in a country where things that were basic human rights were not denied to people.

As for not a lot of profit for the industry, they rank the industry as a sector, which includes all of the various non-profits that attempted to provide services to those who couldn't otherwise get them, and went bankrupt doing so.

Note that you are putting words in my mouth here. The equivalent counterargument would be me claiming you value profit so much you'd sacrifice every moral, belief, relative, ideal and value you have all in the name of the almighty dollar. I don't think that is the case about you, and you shouldn't think the fact that I don't believe in putting profit ahead of human rights means that I think profit is bad.

[SadisticNature]

Except that if you buy insurance in advance to protect against things you know you won't be able to pay and then they refuse payment on that treatment they are actually refusing you treatment. You made the decision to have these procedures available to you if you needed them even though you couldn't afford the actual procedure, and then had that taken away by a refusal to pay.

Insurers do not decide treatment! The merely agree to pay or not pay. The decision is yours not theirs!