Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
Probably not, but I don't have to, do I? If believers are right, they must prove it. Non-believers have nothing whatsoever to prove, so why on Earth would they ever want to?
Believers don't have to prove what they believe in, as long as they are happy with whatever evidence they feel is already available. It's only non-believers who demand the proof.

In other words, the absence of "A" (as anything other than a concept) is persuasive evidence of its non-existence. If "A" does exist outside the imagination, then its existence must be demonstrated to rebut the presumption that it does not.
It's still only a presumption, however. Just because you can't prove it exists and can't demonstrate that it exists doesn't mean that it cannot exist. Just that you can't, under current conditions and with current technology, prove it's existence.

In astronomy, especially, there have been many objects which were presumed to exist despite the fact that they could not be detected or measured. They were deduced based on effects which occur that seemed to require something of their kind to exist. That didn't necessarily mean they did exist (I can think of one that was shown to be untrue), just that they might exist.

If "A" cannot be proved to exist, then those who say thay "know" it does are liars, and those who believe them are gullible.
True, one cannot "know" something exists without proof, and those who claim to know it are, indeed, liars. But believing something exists without proof does not make one gullible.

Until the time when a spacecraft actually orbited the moon and photographed the far side, scientist could only assume that there would be craters there. Believing that there were craters there did not make the scientists gullible, just trusting that their conclusions were accurate. And if that first spacecraft had shown that there cotton candy trees on the far side of the moon instead of craters, would you think the scientists were stupid to have believed in the existence of craters in the first place? I think not!

Just my point of view, though, and I wouldn't want anyone to change thier opinions on account of what I say.
I agree, you have a right to your point of view, and I don't criticize your comments just because I may not agree with them. I'm only trying to point out what I perceive to be logical fallacies in some of your comments. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm right.

But I believe I am!

And for the record, I, too, am a non-believer. I long ago discarded the need for some supernatural magic worker in my life. I find there are far too many discrepancies even within single religions, much less between different religions, to make such a belief viable, for me.

That doesn't necessarily mean I'm right.

But I believe I am!