History Of The World Part ?

[Rhabbi]

I think if something is discovered in undisturbed rock or sediment layer that then it a safe assumption that the object was there at the time the layer or rock was formed. The people who found these objects could have simply been mistaken or possibly made up the whole thing.

That said, the Antikythera Mechanism and Baghdad Battery are very real artifacts that have been well studied and even reconstructed.

I would agree with that, but then we must define our terms. That nail inside a piece of coal was not found under those conditions. The reason archaeological digs are closely scrutinized and documented is to prevent cross contamination.

I use Occam's Razor to explain things I come across. If I went diving and found a piece of technology in a sediment level that clearly could not date to that period, I would assume that it came from another time. It is simpler for me to believe that than that someone independently of the years of background needed to develop complex clockwork somehow short circuited all the necessary research and development to make a clock that can track the solar system.

The reason that Occam's Razor works is that a simple answer is often the correct one. Trying to tell me that something happened thousands of years before the technology existed, I will never buy that.

[TomOfSweden]

The reason that Occam's Razor works is that a simple answer is often the correct one. Trying to tell me that something happened thousands of years before the technology existed, I will never buy that.

Is this some kind of trick statement to draw me in, or what? What's simple about the theories laid out in the Bible?

[Rhabbi]

Is this some kind of trick statement to draw me in, or what? What's simple about the theories laid out in the Bible?

Tom,

This is something I thought you would agree with. there are people who actually believe that a complex clockwork mechanism was somehow built before the supporting technology existed. No way.

[TomOfSweden]

Tom,

This is something I thought you would agree with. there are people who actually believe that a complex clockwork mechanism was somehow built before the supporting technology existed. No way.

Edit: never mind, ignore.

Back to the never ending argument. I'll shut up now before I'm in to my neck as I usually get.

edit2: and since I'm an idiot and have to lick both poles of the battery just to make sure.

Who said there is a clockwork mechanism? If you throw an apple into a lake, the bacteria that start growing their will treat it like a constant. The world they've always lived on, but it will perish. Be eaten, or cleaned away. What might appear as constant to us might in fact be as fleeting.

Things are pretty random in this world and the only reason why we live in wonder of how this complexity could arise is off-course because this is the world we live in. If the world had been in any other configuration we would live in awe over how it could be like that. We are perfectly adapted to this world because this is the world we've evolved in. No, magic, no supernatural no mysteries.

[Rhabbi]

Edit: never mind, ignore.

Back to the never ending argument. I'll shut up now before I'm in to my neck as I usually get.

edit: and since I'm an idiot and have to lick both poles of the battery just to make sure.

Who said their is a clockwork mechanism? If you throw an apple into a lake, the bacteria that start growing their will treat it like a constant. The world they've always lived on, but it will perish. Be eaten, or cleaned a way. What might appear as constant to us might in fact be as fleeting.

I actually do not know what it is, but i have read about this, seen numerous x-rays, and even working replicas based on those x-rays.

The people who believe in this particular type of thing want me to believe that a complex mechanical device with gears, cogs, and springs was somehow built 2000 years ago. the problem with that is that it needs supporting technology to build something like that, and that did not exist. Let us look at the possible explanations.

1. This device discovered on an old shipwreck was somehow built despite the fact that the builder would have needed to discover and build centuries worth of tools to accomplish this.
2. An advanced civilization built this and there exist no trace of this civilization anywhere else on earth.
3. A race of ancient astronauts visited Earth and left this behind, even though something like this would be nothing more than a museum piece to them, just as it is to us now.
4. It was dropped from a passing ship much later and somehow managed to land almost on top of this old wreck.

Personally I find all of these unlikely, but the one that works for me is number 4. Occam's Razor simply says that the simplest answer is the most likely one. Though there is even a simpler one that I did not mention, because I am willing to give the people who discovered this the benefit of the doubt.

• This is a complete hoax.

[TomOfSweden]

• This is a complete hoax.

Or is a misstake. Carbon dating has a huge problem of specimen contamination. Maybe somebody boobed at the lab. A journalist heard the story ran it and when the scientist did a re-check and got back to the journalist, it wasn't news any more.

If something requires knowledge in metalurgy that first was discovered in the 15'th century then we know it can't be older. A good scientist entertains every avenue, but in most cases the truth is painfully obvious to everybody involved.

[Rhabbi]

Or is a misstake. Carbon dating has a huge problem of specimen contamination. Maybe somebody boobed at the lab. A journalist heard the story ran it and when the scientist did a re-check and got back to the journalist, it wasn't news any more.

If something requires knowledge in metalurgy that first was discovered in the 15'th century then we know it can't be older. A good scientist entertains every avenue, but in most cases the truth is painfully obvious to everybody involved.

I would agree with that, except that it apparently isn't.

More than a hundred years ago an extraordinary mechanism was found by sponge divers at the bottom of the sea near the island of Antikythera. It astonished the whole international community of experts on the ancient world. Was it an astrolabe? Was in an orrery or an astronomical clock? Or something else? For decades, scientific investigation failed to yield much light and relied more on imagination than the facts. However research over the last half century has begun to reveal its secrets. It dates from around the 1st century B.C. and is the most sophisticated mechanism known from the ancient world. Nothing as complex is known for the next thousand years. The Antikythera Mechanism is now understood to be dedicated to astronomical phenomena and operates as a complex mechanical "computer" which tracks the cycles of the Solar System.

http://www.antikythera-mechanism.gr/

These people apparently believe that this device was built centuries before its time. I have no problem with that, but I do not, nor will I ever, believe that.