Perceptions based soley on religion

[_ID_]

OK Tom, I admit it.

We all judge people based on our thoughts and upbringing, and my judgement is based on my religion. I am not a hypocrite though, because I do not say one thing and do something else.

My faith leads me to certain inexcapable judgements about people, but because I do not believe in hell I can believe that even those of us who are wrong will have a chance to get it right later.

You judge people based on your atheism, and even believe that we who have faith are, in some way, ignorant. I do not hold this against you because I know that you do truly understand the nature of the universe. I could actually quote you scripture that describes your attitude and outlook on life.

But regardless of this, I know that when I condemn someone I am overstepping my bounds. Even Jesus did not come to condemn people, but to deliver them. Those who refuse to accept this are not condemned by me, or by him, but by themselves.

I think that last line is hypocritical. You say you don't condemn people, yet in the same post, you say people are condemned if they do not believe in god, or Christ or whatever. I'm not trying to flame you, don't get me wrong. Just please see it from the point of view of someone who doesn't believe in the same scripture you do.

To me it sounds quite judgmental to say "If you don't take Christ as your savior you will be dammed Simply because that is what it says in the book I read". It's also quite judgmental to say "If a person believes in religion they are delusional".

The point I was trying to make when I started this post, is we have values, based on our beliefs. Well, what if those beliefs are wrong. Are able to be proven wrong with simple science. By refusing to accept what is provable in a scientific setting, you could be refusing to have faith in one of your Gods divine designs.

As in the case of the XXY chromosome. That is a scientificly provable item. They are neither male or female as genitics go. So what gives us the right to dam them for choosing science to help them into whatever gender they choose to have?

The proverb - Walk a thousand miles in my shoes before judging me. Rings quite true in that regard.

[Rhabbi]

I think that last line is hypocritical. You say you don't condemn people, yet in the same post, you say people are condemned if they do not believe in god, or Christ or whatever. I'm not trying to flame you, don't get me wrong. Just please see it from the point of view of someone who doesn't believe in the same scripture you do.

Actually, that is the problem with trying to expalin religion to someone who does not live it.

I am not saying you are condemned because you do not believe. I am saying that the Scripture I follow says that. It may seem like a subtle difference, or even that I am splitting semantic hairs, but it is a very real one.

Try to understand this from your own perspective. You know that your cultural conditioning and religious background influence your reaction to those outside the norm, and want to reject that conditioning.

On the other hand, I can accept these people as who and what they are. I might urge them to accept that they were cheated by chance and genetics, but I would never feel uncomfortable around them. I know this because I have met them, spoke to them, and continue to do so.

If they subsequently choose to alter their condition through surgery, that is there choice, just as it is mine to believe they are wrong to do so.

Where is my hypocrisy? Is it because I tell them that there is hope for a better life? Or is it because I accept them as they are, before and after?

My faith gives me hope for the future of all of us, and an understanding that the only real answers lie with God, not man.

[_ID_]

Actually, that is the problem with trying to expalin religion to someone who does not live it.

I am not saying you are condemned because you do not believe. I am saying that the Scripture I follow says that. It may seem like a subtle difference, or even that I am splitting semantic hairs, but it is a very real one.

Try to understand this from your own perspective. You know that your cultural conditioning and religious background influence your reaction to those outside the norm, and want to reject that conditioning.

On the other hand, I can accept these people as who and what they are. I might urge them to accept that they were cheated by chance and genetics, but I would never feel uncomfortable around them. I know this because I have met them, spoke to them, and continue to do so.

If they subsequently choose to alter their condition through surgery, that is there choice, just as it is mine to believe they are wrong to do so.

Where is my hypocrisy? Is it because I tell them that there is hope for a better life? Or is it because I accept them as they are, before and after?

My faith gives me hope for the future of all of us, and an understanding that the only real answers lie with God, not man.

I understand your position quite well actually. I grew up very religious. It has been through study of both religion and science, and how those two relate to the other that I have come to the conclusion that in order for me to accept them for who they are, they must first accept themselves for who they are. If they need to make a change, then I support them.

I believe science to be a tool of God. Given to man to better our position in life, to advance our minds, to grow as a people. Living in strict adherence to antiquated scripture, I think leads to a person refusing to accept the advancements of mankind. Thus those persons would be refusing to accept that God could bless people with talents to create, to invent, to alter his existence for his own betterment.

I believe your hypocrisies comes in the areas I highlighted. If you could accept a person for who they were, then you wouldn't condemn them for making the choices they make. I also believe you have such faith in your beliefs that you will not be able to see why I see your views to be contradictory.

I would like to pose a question to you though. Do you believe in all areas of the Bible, and what version? Because if I recall correctly one of the ten commandments was to not lust after they neighbors wife. Which would translate into, don't lust after porn. I think there is also a part in there that says something about if you think a sin, it is the same as committing the sin, but I could be wrong about the second one... I did get taught by some fanatical leaders at one point..

[tessa]

Ok, here I go adding my less than a half-penny worth of thoughts to this.

ID's first question was, "Do we make judgments about people based on our faith?"

A person more wise than I helped me clarify this idea for myself. I think we all make judgements about others based on our beliefs, our personally perceived values, our likes and dislikes, the culture we are exposed to and sometimes just because it's a certain day of the week. These judgements can be positive or negative. And since these judgements can be as fallible as the humans making them, the real problem comes into play when we use those judgements to condemn or commend.

That brings me to the part of ID's post where he mentions intersex individuals and how there sexual orientation may be viewed by persons in the religious community. My first thought was, "why the crap does it make any difference to any others but the people involved??" But knowing the power a group of religious people can have on the life of others, the question on how they would view the sexual orientation of a person with gender issues, be it from genetic hiccups or personal preferences, is a valid one to ask.

Due to the sexual nature of the entire concept, I sadly think many faith-based organizations (not all, but many more than should) would be quick to condemn no matter what choice was made. A man who is genetically a male, but has female attributes, choosing a woman to partner up with would be questioned. The same man choosing a male partner would definitely be considered a no-no for many. Or that person born hermaphroditic...no real options that wouldn't be condemned on either side. As ID said, "neither here nor there" and damned either way.

But I hasten to add that we are speaking of the opinions and judgements of people, mere mortals who have decided that their interpretation of the Bible is the so right one. I can only pray that I will never be so foolish as to apply the tiny thoughts of man to the awesomeness of Almighty God.

Again, ID, thanks for posting this. A good think is always a pleasure.