Printable View
This is my first post and I am totally new to this BDSM. I am a male dom and the wife is a sub( or learning to be actually). Daily in general my wife has a normally dom personality and it needs to change!! Any ideas on how to make this work?? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Welcome! Have fun in your exploration, first of all, and play safely.
You can't make someone into a submissive (or dominant) if it isn't part of their personality. They can fake it, but it's never real. That being said, I suspect you mean that your wife has either a high responsibility job or is just generally take-charge in her attitudes. (I may well be wrong, and if that's the case, just ignore me.) :) You and she need to talk it out and figure out what you're both looking for from this lifestyle. Do you both want it to be something you live 24/7, or do you want it to be bedroom play? As the dominant partner, a great burden of work is on you to figure out her mindset and attitudes towards submission. What it means to her may not be what it means to you. Basically, communicate your needs with one another. I know this isn't the sexy answer, detailing ways you should beat her into submission, but... well, I assume that's not what you're after.
Remember, no matter what anyone tells you, there is no One True Way of doing this stuff. As long as it doesn't venture into the territory of abuse, how you proceed is based on your needs and her needs- which is both exciting and scary. There's no handbook to being a perfect Dom, but there are tons of articles you can find on informative sites about what it means to other people to be in their roles.
I hope that helps! (I'm sure you will get plenty of good advice here, even if mine doesn't help in the slightest) Again, good luck to you both!
Perhaps I'm picking apart semantics here, but this statement causes me to raise an eyebrow and wonder. Like your wife, I also have a rather Dom personality in most of my interactions and while at work. I'm much more comfortable in a position of control, and tend to assume it naturally. I'd rather not change that. In fact, I'd have to wonder about my Dom's true intentions with me if he tried to adjust that aspect of who I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by masterB
That being said, not all is lost.
It's the respect Master has for me and for my strengths as a person that cause me to respect Him in return, and trust Him, and desire to be submissive to Him. The men in my life that have been intimidated by, bothered by, or otherwise have desired to manipulate my personality are the ones that have always held the least sway over me. The subs I identify with the most are those of us that desire to give ourselves to someone that deserves us, so don't try to change your wife's personality, nurture it and prove to her that you're deserving of taking her as your submissive.
ummmmmm be a man i think would be the best advise that is what she wants be confident strong all of that
I agree with DowntownAmber here. I myself am stubborn as hell in everyday life, and like to handle my own stuff.
This does not affect a womanīs ability to be a sub! As Amber said - the fact that my hubby lets me be what I am in daily life allows me to hand over control in the BDSM part of our lives.
This also caused great confusion to me in the beginning of our relationship, as I thought those two sides of me cannot be combined in any satisfying way. But they can.
I donīt think it is possible to change a grown personīs personality.
One does not have to turn into a doormat sort of person to be a good sub...
Hello MasterB and All~Quote:
Originally Posted by masterB
My experience, and as Others here who have responded thusfar have said basically, Submissives are generally Strong PPL. Submissive does not mean doormat, or someone akin to an overcooked spagetti noodle. Most can manage most things in their Lives quite well. Just because Your Wife is a Strong Person does not mean that she has a Dominant personality.
Perhaps the problem lies in a lack of defining what it is You wish for from this Style of Relationship? And Training for Your Needs? Most new (even if they are just new to You) Submissives Need to be Trained by the Dom/me' for Serving that Dominant. No 2 PPL are the same. And many/most new Submissives don't just Give up Control, or quite fully recognize what that is or means exactly. It is basically Train and Take. ie A process. It is effort and work on Everyone's part.
Worse comes to worse and Your Wife is actually Dominant, there are Dominant Couples that do quite well together <soft smiles>.
Respectfully~SidheWolf
DowntownAmber picked up a very important point here:
"The men in my life that have been intimidated by, bothered by, or otherwise have desired to manipulate my personality are the ones that have always held the least sway over me."
Again, I agree. Men who were scared, intimidated, or irritated by my personality were without exception less sure of themselves than myself, and certainly less than a good Dom should be, and why on Earth would I want to submit to a weakling?
In the best case, a man who recquires a doormat is a weakling.
In the worst case, he is a woman-hater with little to no self-control who holds great potential for genuine abuse.
I cannot emphasize enough that the base for every BDSM relationship should be respect and trust - and this is valid BOTH ways!
A bit of info for masterB: I submitted sexually to hubby rather quick because I knew this was what I wanted. To submit to him in other matters and finally in everyday life matters took a lot more time. One of the reasons for that was that whenever in my past I showed a weakness to a man, he would use it against me - so I had to learn how to basically trust a man (a man I had a relationship with, that is) again. Yes it took time, yes it was at times difficult and scary for me, and yes I enjoy the results very much.
Be patient and allow your wife to learn step by step. Donīt rush.
I think you need to talk to each other, decide what each of your needs are, see how they work out for the other and build from there. Remember no one is alike meaning you must do what is right for the two of you. About the only thing that is a given is that in not impossible it is at the very least extremely difficult to change your core personality. That should not be a concern though since you both seem to want to assume opposite rolls in D/s.
A couple of comments from Arria I'm going to agree with and pitch in my two cents reagarding...
They can and, honestly, I think this is the MOST satisfying combination...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arria
Arria and I were in the same boat here, and more than likely your wife is there now as well. A strong woman a sub? On the surface it seems to make no sense, but this is where the respect and trust really take shape. It takes nothing to accept the submission of a doormat, but there is mutual respect and communication in owning and being trusted with the strength and surrender of an equal. Submission and acceptance is a choice, not an inevitability; and given the choice, wouldn’t you opt for a partner that also has the taste to choose you for your highest qualities?
Spot on. Throwing a spoiler on a Civic won’t make it a Ferrari and won’t turn you into a race car driver, nor will snapping a pair or cuffs on your wife and grabbing a crop make her a submissive and you a Dom. Take the time to learn how to drive your particular relationship and dynamic, and it could prove to be a wonderful and very successful coupling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arria
I just want to poke my head in and comment on something that's bothering me- I know nobody is intending to be rude, but the word 'doormat' is being thrown around left and right, to the point that it sounds derogatory without having been defined for what it is. I find it to be misleading, because who can truly judge when a sub is not a sub, but is instead a doormat?
There are many types of strengths, and as many personalities as there are people. Some subs don't exhibit their strength through the powerful personality that is being lauded here as The Best Thing Ever (which I know you don't mean that way, again, but for somebody new to stumble in here and read this thread, it could come off that way). Sometimes submission is offered quietly, in a manner that appears to have less fire. The difference is that there are many things that feed our fires- as long as a Dom is lifting up the partner, it doesn't matter that the sub is or is not outspoken/career intensive/naturally controlling in his/her life or what have you. All that matters is that the needs of both partners are being met.
If a Dom is looking for a sub who willingly serves and is naturally submissive, I don't think that makes the Dom a weakling. I think a Dom is a weakling if s/he is threatened by the greatness of his/her submissive, but that has very little (in my opinion) to do with personal tastes within the lifestyle.
I'm not trying to offend or insult; rather I'm trying to offer a bit of perspective. If anyone feels my words are hurtful, please contact me (either here or through PM) so that we can get it straightened out. I am not looking to hurt anyone.
You're not being offensive at all, quite the contrary a very good question/comment/concern. I'll answer from my own perspective and hopefully it'll help clarify what you're wondering about.Quote:
Originally Posted by delish
When I use the term "doormat" I am referring to someone that is subbing either due to the fact that they feel unworthy as a person or as an equal, or someone that has been bullied into their submission. For many subs (while, yes, we are naturally the way we are), our submission is still ours to give as we see fit to a person fit to have it. It is a selective process, not one we approach casually because we need someone/anyone to tie us up and spank us. Once given of course, it is our Dom's to use as they see fit (I know this line has had some air-time on the forums! ;) ).
When I talk about about the "strength" of the sub I mean simply that the sub has the clarity and perspective to offer himself or herself to a Master they feel is worthy of their person. They don't have to be "outspoken/career intensive/naturally controlling" at all. It's an esteem issue, I suppose. The Doms I have the most respect for are always encouraging this positive esteem to come through in their subs. Sir Russell has several fine posts that reference this, as well as others. In fact, I recall one of the first posts of Russell's that I read where he commented that if his sub/slave had such a low opinion of herself, what did that make him feel like as a Dom? (Not a verbatim quote, but I hope it got the point across.) That's what I'm referring to.
In my case and in Arria's, for example, we're a little more hard-assed in our public lives but that makes us no stronger or better than the girl who is quiet and inclined to serve and takes the time to find a Dom that matches her and encourages her. You're completely correct delish, it's all about the needs of the partners being met. If someone comes into a D/s relationship with a low and empty outlook on themselves, however, that "need" to perpetuate their own misery and punish themselves with their choice of relationship can be very very dangerous indeed...
Downtown Amber:
Thank you for addressing my concerns as you did- and for interpreting them so accurately.
I know that you and Arria were sharing personal experiences and the way those experiences work in your relationships, and there's nothing wrong with that- it's fantastic to hear, and utterly true, and really inspiring as well, when it's approachable. I began my exploration as one of those girls who was driven by self-loathing and truly lucked into finding someone who was and will remain unwilling to accept anything from me except for the best. I don't know that I could have (at that point) come in here and read about your stories without feeling so foreign and removed from them that they didn't mean anything to me- and that is sad, because what you're saying is so important. I wish there was a way to convince a person of their own strength. The best I can do is try to translate to something more relatable... or allow you to do that, as you have said it better than I ever could.
Thank you again. :)
Welcome MB.
I think you need to explain a bit more about your relationship. Many subs are powerful & confident, but choose to submit to the right person at specified times.
That works for many people, as can be seen in the replies so far.
A sub has to choose to submit- you can't force it.
oh Tojo I don't agree you can force it, it just takes kidnap, and a lot of time.
I prefer mine to come to me willingly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Russell
Laffin. Of course that is one solution.
But yes B. Most of us prefer self sufficiency in our partners... and the stronger they are, the more pleasurable their gift of submission to you is. Then... once given, it is yours to use. :cool:
Well spoken delish and others - but there is a distinction I'd like to make in the above. My girl is very submissive - but she is also a very strong person. By the tone of what you've written in your longer post she would be classified her as a door mat in some eyes - and she is anything but that - deep submission does not make a door mat, though door mats are indeed deeply submissive. I think the difference is that a door mat will submit to any form of dominance without having had her mind won (in essence - she has given herself over to dominance - not to an individual) - where a non-door mat deep submissive must always have her mind won over (she submits to whatever depth she needs - to the one who has won her mind)...as a wise friend puts it "Capture the mind and the rest will follow". That describes my girl. And I wouldn't change her one iota!Quote:
Originally Posted by delish
Before I chime in with my 2 cents, I am going to wait and see if he even comes back to respond.
Oh, dear- that's exactly what I was trying NOT to say- and I apologise for miscommunicating. I'm assuming it's something in my longer post that gave the impression that deep submission=doormat. Absolutely not- I was trying to make mention of the fact that there are more ways of showing strength in submission than having an outwardly "strong" personality, though that is no less valid. I keep tripping over my words here, but I did want to apologise, to you and your girl, and anyone who interpreted my post to be judgemental in any way. That was truly not my intention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippett
chuckles... I rememeber a long time ago S1 mentioning kidnapping me...smirks but that is another story!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Russell
The contrast is one of the rewards of submission for me. Yes, in my everyday life I have a lot of responsibility, some I take on willingly, some which is foisted upon me. In submission to Him, I continue to have responsibility, but a different kind. And I truly don't believe He'd enjoy my submission to nearly the same extent if I were a "doormat". In fact, I don't think He'd have chosen me if I were. He likes strength of will - I think because He appreciates having the submission of a self-sufficient woman. It's confirmation that I make a conscious decision to submit to Him. That being said - please don't take from this the idea that He has to wrest my submission from me through some process of "taming". I give it voluntarily, hopefully with a minimum of fuss. Is there sometimes an internal struggle? Yes. And He sees it as proof that my desire to please Him overrides my usual desire to hide from others behind a mask. I have no mask, no mental/emotional defenses in place, no discomfort (except that which He chooses to create) and that's submission to me. Exposure of my inner self, acceptance of what I have to offer, joy in what He chooses to give, His determination to take even more...and an overwhelming desire and outright need to please Him.
And I do. He tells me so. :)
jeanne,
So very well said, I bet you make world class submissive in record time.
Very glad you are my friend
In reading back delish, I think I was reading too much into your comment about "does that make a Dom weak" - and there is absolutely no need to apologise dear, you spoke succinctly and clearly and I read more into what you said than you meant. I guess it's a bit of a hot button for me at the moment - as much from what is happening locally with the community as anything. Check your PMQuote:
Originally Posted by delish
From you, Sir_Russell, that is the highest of compliments. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Russell
And I'm glad you're my friend too! :wave:
I've read through these posts and I think I can sum it up in quite a short post.
You don't make your wife submissive. She is submissive already, (if she is). It's all her. The trick is for you to be somebody that she would want to submit to. But she married you, so that's a strong indicator that you're doing all right.
What you need to do is figure out ow to validate her needs while at the same time remaining you. It's both your and her needs that need to be validated by each other. Certain things about you turn her on...do more of that and she'll be more submissive. Some things you do, annoy her and turn her off...do less of that since it'll make her confused about submitting. What is which...ask her. Communicate. If she doesn't tell you straight out, then listen for the clues and work it out. Beginners can rarely put words on their emotions, so it isn't fair to demand it.
Did I get it right?
every dom and every sub have theor own style no 2 are alike its easy saying me dom you sub.....but now what? well thats where communication time prectice apitence coem in.....well and lots of trust.......baby step at first you cant go jumping out of the plane as soon as it leaves the runway......thats about all i cna really say.....other than both of you sould be asking eachother and answering eachothers questions and being honest best advice i ahve
actually, as masterB is brand new to BDSM D/s, this might just be another case of a common misunderstanding- alot of new people think that to be a submissive or slave means to be quiet, meek, and easily led at all times. they get over it *smile*
(i admit i havent read all the discussion so please forgive me if i repeated someone else's point)