Pain Training

[loonytunes]

Hi, looking for a few tips if poss on training my sub to handle/enjoy higher levels of pain from whippings beatings etc, we have an almost no limits type of arrangement so if i want to beat her then i can, but she does not at this stage really enjoy the pain, not a natural masochist at the moment i think....So i was thinking of going back to basics with this and starting with a little spanking etc then working up from there to caning on her behind, then to her back breasts etc over a period of a few months to allow her to grow used to handling this..
Anyone got any good ideas/tips that you have experienced for learning to convert the pain as it were..................


Loony

[slavelucy]

Hi loonytunes,

i'm not entirely sure what you mean; just to clarify, do you mean you would like her to take more pain, or you would actually like her to enjoy the pain you currenly give her, and more? If the latter, i can kinda recommend gradually combining pleasure with pain...the power of association being quite strong after a period of time..if the former then yes, i think just building up gradually is probably the way to go.

sl

[loonytunes]

Hi Slavelucy, actually i should be a little clearer perhaps when i post, the amount does not seem to be a problem, she will let me do pretty much anything but thats not to say she enjoys it greatly, which in an ideal world, i would love her to do, Actually you have made a good point already, in that there was not a lot going on in a pleasurable way last couple of times, so perhaps the addition of a vibe at the same time may have helped.............Hmmmmmm
Even Doms have to learn sometime

[Finding_Fantasy]

It would be great if all us submissives would enjoy pain... at least from the perpective of our dominants. Unfortunately, if it isn't natural, then I have my doubts that you can "train" someone to like it. It's kind of like brussel sprouts; either you like them or you don't and no matter how much you sugar coat them, they're still gonna be brussel sprouts.

I dislike pain. There are a few activities that I enjoy that involve a certain type of pain, but I am, by no means, a pain slut and no amount of training is going to change that for me. Her pain tolerance may increase, but probably not her enjoyment. That's just my view on things.

[slavelucy]

Actually you have made a good point already, in that there was not a lot going on in a pleasurable way last couple of times, so perhaps the addition of a vibe at the same time may have helped.............Hmmmmmm
Even Doms have to learn sometime

Doms have to learn huh? That must be the best kept secret in the BDSM world... *giggles*

Just be clear tho (although i reckon you caught what i meant already), i didn't mean that you should essentially have to pleasure your submissive in order for her to take pain, i meant that through suffering pain (to whatever extent) whilst experiencing pleasure, one can start to like pain more, even if it's only to the extent of not hating it. FF is right, you cannot force anyone to be a pain slut and in that sense, if someone hates it SO much, they will be fairly unlikely to be able to cum during it anyway...but if someone is capable of experiencing pleasure whilst in pain, if forced (mmmm ), then there is, IMHO, potential there in the sense of mental association.

HTH

sl

[tehya]

When I started on this journey, I swore pain would never be a part of anything I would do. I feared the pain, and quite frankly could not wrap my mind around actually enjoying pain, or deriving pleasured from pain. It was so completely beyond my comprehension.

*grinning* But times have changed, and I have grown and learned much in this past year.

Canopus started out so very slowly with me, and with things that I would not even assiociate as being pain play... things like twisting nipples, clamping them, pegging them, etc... Moving right on up there to slapping them til they turned all shades of colors... *yummo* But I think the most important factor is that he always associated it with receiving pleasure... either by me masturbating while he would torture my nipples, or using other toys to bring extreme pleasure along with the pain. Almost to the point that I could no longer establish which was pain and which was pleasure... they began to blend together... and this is the way it remains to this day...

Now I am learning how to make floggers and even coming up with suggestions of things I would like Master to try on me. The point I think I am trying to make is... Pain just for pains sake is just not enough for some... and really isn't the picture of your slave crying from the pain and writhing in the pleasure you give her at the same time so much more thrilling? My guess is she will gleefully drop to your feet and thank you for giving her that, and in return imagine what you will be receiving!

Master's tehya

[Jones, Nikka]

...i didn't mean that you should essentially have to pleasure your submissive in order for her to take pain, i meant that through suffering pain (to whatever extent) whilst experiencing pleasure, one can start to like pain more, even if it's only to the extent of not hating it. FF is right, you cannot force anyone to be a pain slut and in that sense, if someone hates it SO much, they will be fairly unlikely to be able to cum during it anyway...but if someone is capable of experiencing pleasure whilst in pain, if forced (mmmm ), then there is, IMHO, potential there in the sense of mental association.

Right on, slavelucy! I can attest to the power of mental association, even though in my case, the reverse happened.

Pain and pleasure are opposite (and I believe complementary) emotions/sensations. As a lifetime painslut who had, at the time I discovered bdsm, a very low self esteem, I had to learn to enjoy pleasure at the hands of my lover. He made it happen in my head before he laid a hand on me. Talking to me about it, reading me stories, making me write about it and skillfully mixing a bit of one with a bit of the other during play, soon in my mind, and later in my body, pain and pleasure were truly inseparable.

loonytunes, just be patient about it. It will not happen overnight, but I firmly believe in mind over matter:

"If you do not mind screaming in pain while you are fucked to orgasm, then it does not matter how you are fucked"

[Garnet99]

I have to agree with tehya. When my master and I first started I swore I never wanted to experience pain. However, now he is always incorporating pain with pleasure, and I can endure much more than I ever thought possible. It tends to blend to the point where I can't tell where one stops and the other begins. I still have a very difficult time when there is only pain - but he can do the same thing to me with pleasure and it is exhilarating! We only discovered the joy of BDSM last December and realize we still have so much to learn.
Garnet

[Katmandu]

Yes, although I've always enjoyed the pain alone (I'm weird that way! ), the mixing of the 2 is sheer heaven! After several months of mixing the 2 (Master can't bear the thought of just hurting me, even though I do like it! ), I have finally been mentally brainwashed to have the 2 (pain/pleasure) joined as 1 in my mind as either one alone, or both together are applied to me. Let's face it folks, I'm just one horny puppy! Antway, point is, keep mixing the 2 with your play, and let time solve the rest!

[loonytunes]

Ok guys and gals thanks for your replies they have been very interesting to read, but alas we have decided that the 24/7 thing is not for her ,and that the D/s thing should be for a bit of fun now and again,after trying it for 3 months, almost to the day we have decided to step back and it looks like i have two choices now, be true to myself and seek out someone that can enjoy the lifestyle with me 24/7 or otherwise, or live a vanilla life with a bit of saturday night kink now and again.......Very Difficult choice, live a lie, or take the plunge
my goodness this is going to be hard......Having had many years experiences involving bondage, D/s as a roleplay thing, i really thought the transition to making it a more serious aspect of our lives would be easier for her, ok we may have just been learning as far as the more S/M related things were concerned, but she did not even enjoy the control aspects it seems, so i decided to stop it, the consensual aspect being very important to me..........

Wish me luck, might be looking at the Personals section in the not to distant future...................LOL

[MrJerseyGuy]

I don't know that someone who doesn't enjoy pain can "learn to like it". Someone who is already turned on by it can work on improving limits, but thats a whole different thing.

In my own relationship I find that getting her really hot first...just to the brink of orgasm but not allowing it, definately improves her tolerance and desire for pain. It's a constant "up and down" thing. Works well for us. Good luck

[Dslave]

It is difficult to make someone into something they are not... whether that someone is yourself or someone else. You need to both be enjoying what you are doing. That doesn't mean that a slave or sub has to enjoy all of her/his punishments but she/he has to enjoy submitting to them at least. And if she/he is getting pain for pleasure I would hope it would be pleasurable. If it isn't, then maybe it isn't something she/he should be doing. Just as if giving or administering pain bothers a Master/Mistress or Dom(me) maybe they should be doing other things. I think both parties need to be totally comfortable and I do think that is of utmost importance. If you are doing something just to please someone (even in a vanilla relationship) rather than being true to yourself it always has the potential to be disasterous.

[jaro_99]

yeah..pleasure AND pain is the key to it - mixing them together can be a big help even if the pain itself does not bring direct pleasure - basically, distract them somewhat! *smile*

but take it slow...you never really know what a sub/slave can endure or learn

and remember, as tough as it might seem to moderate your desire to really let them have it, for the sub the point is submission - they're submitting to the pain and the key thing is what's in their head...its good for us Doms to learn to appreciate that even if we have fantasies about drawing blood or leaving huge welts

and lastly for me...pain is a strange thing and so are people's attitudes to it - I used to see a woman who was very much not able to accept canes...but severe biting sould prodice very strong orgasms and she also loved our attempts at fisting (though other women surely would find that far too uncomfortable)...so try to be flexible or creative about what 'pain' means in your play

have fun

J

[myri_SN]

did fisting really for the first time yesterday, some guy who sort of raped me tried it a year ago but i dont think that counts, i did not agree to play with him.

Master tried a few times and stopped as soon as he thought he hurt me, no idea hwy but it seemed to me like it.

so after a long time of more hinting that i do love stretching he did it again yesterday and did not stop.

it burnt like fire the first tiem he tried to get in but that got better. no idea how long it took till he got there but i loved it and i just hope he does it again.
however id o love pain anyway. just when it burnt that much i nearly regretted that i kept going on asking for him to try it as i did not imagine it beign that buy at the start.

[Lilly My Sweet]

I definitely think that the tolerance of pain can be trained and even manipualted to bring pleasure to the receiver. Just think of the whole 'Pavlov's dogs' experiment. The dogs were trained to be fed after hearing the ring of a bell. After time, the dogs drooled simply upon hearing the sound of the bell as they knew that a meal would soon follow. Why wouldn't converting pain into pleasure work in the same way? If you inflict pain upon your partner and follow it with an act that you know will bring on a wave of pleasure for her, then over time, she ought to associate pain with pleasure and actually get off on the pain because of the anticipation of the pleasure to come...i think, hehe.

[Blue_Monday]

Ooh, I'd like to be Pavlov's little puppy in *that* experiment!

I think a tolerance for pain can be built up, and association is important. An inexperienced sub, unless he or she naturally likes pain, has only ever experienced pain in a negative sense, as something that should be minimized and avoided. To experience it and, rather than avoiding it, to *embrace* it, is something of a mental exercise. For me, it's been helpful to take small amounts of pain and remember that it's safe, it won't damage me, it won't go further than I can handle it; to just rethink it as something given in love rather than in anger or whatever.

I don't know if this answers the original question--sounds like maybe it's a moot point now--but this is definitely an interesting topic.