Condoms for teen agers

[DuncanONeil]

The sad and bad reality is that in very many places in the world, this is exactly what happens. Children soldiers, children addicts, children prostitutes, children workers.

Now, I think most would agree that that is not what we want for our children, or any children, and that the protection from working exploitation and so on is a good thing indeed. But there is such a thing as going overboard with it, and seeing children as sort 'cut out of' the world we all live in, as little blank slates just waiting for us to write on, and nothing to do with the 'real' world.

In a manner of speaking they are blank slates. Else why would they need to be taught values or morals?
Never intended to suggest they be " 'cut out of' the world". But they do need to be taught about the world.
As far as "waiting to write on". That is exactly what the schools are doing. Unfortunately much of what they are writing is not appropriate!

Children are personalities with opinions, and they share our world for better or worse. We cannot protect them from it, nor in some cases should we, meaning they must learn the world, in as protected ways as can be managed, but they must not be kept apart from it or be seen as apart from it.

Personalities, yes! But their "opinions require development. Learning the world is a dual task job, that of their parents and the schools. Many parents abdicate to the schools and that is a bad thing. And much of schooling is misdirected.

[Thorne]

In a manner of speaking they are blank slates. Else why would they need to be taught values or morals?

Actually, it's only some morals that need to be taught. Watch children, very young children playing together. They experiment with each other, quite literally. One may strike the other, causing that other child some distress. If the parents immediately jump in and stop things, the first child learns that he can hurt his companions without any repercussions. If you leave them alone, however, the second child will probably retaliate. They have both learned a valuable lesson, without any intervention from "moral" adults. This is most likely they way in which our most basic moral attitudes were originally formed. People learned that there were prices to pay for certain actions. If the price is too high, they learn not to do them.

As far as "waiting to write on". That is exactly what the schools are doing. Unfortunately much of what they are writing is not appropriate!

Appropriate to whom? If the schools are doing their jobs, and we are doing ours, our children should be learning about the real world. And sexuality is a part of the real world. Like it or not, our children are going to be exposed to it for the rest of their lives. Far better to have them learn the truth young, when it can make a lasting impression, than later on when their minds are already too warped to understand the truth.

Many parents abdicate to the schools and that is a bad thing. And much of schooling is misdirected.

Parents relying solely on the schools is certainly a bad thing. But to some degree, the schools are teaching the values of the community and culture to which they belong. If they are not then it is up to the parents to change them. But remember, the schools are teaching to children of different races, different economic classes, different religions, and vastly diverse cultural backgrounds. They must concentrate on those things which are required by all for their future survival as adults. Trying to limit what is taught to those topics considered "safe" by a vocal minority, or even a silent majority, would be just as wrong as not teaching them at all.

[DuncanONeil]

Actually, it's only some morals that need to be taught. Watch children, very young children playing together. They experiment with each other, quite literally. One may strike the other, causing that other child some distress. If the parents immediately jump in and stop things, the first child learns that he can hurt his companions without any repercussions. If you leave them alone, however, the second child will probably retaliate. They have both learned a valuable lesson, without any intervention from "moral" adults. This is most likely they way in which our most basic moral attitudes were originally formed. People learned that there were prices to pay for certain actions. If the price is too high, they learn not to do them.

If in your example there are no repercussions then the parents are to be faulted for failure of parenting.
Perhaps this may be AN origin of communal behaviour. But what about the kid that does not retaliate? Morals are about making a concious choice.

Appropriate to whom? If the schools are doing their jobs, and we are doing ours, our children should be learning about the real world. And sexuality is a part of the real world. Like it or not, our children are going to be exposed to it for the rest of their lives. Far better to have them learn the truth young, when it can make a lasting impression, than later on when their minds are already too warped to understand the truth.

Schools are not doing their job. Based on their rate of success. How young? Is it not better to deal with the questions when the child seeks the answer than for somebody to simply decide now is the time for all children to learn about sex?

Parents relying solely on the schools is certainly a bad thing. But to some degree, the schools are teaching the values of the community and culture to which they belong. If they are not then it is up to the parents to change them. But remember, the schools are teaching to children of different races, different economic classes, different religions, and vastly diverse cultural backgrounds. They must concentrate on those things which are required by all for their future survival as adults. Trying to limit what is taught to those topics considered "safe" by a vocal minority, or even a silent majority, would be just as wrong as not teaching them at all.

Values are the province of school to teach. Merely reinforce. All of those differences really do not affect values.
As for what the schools do is to teach way more in cultural stuff than real education, ya know readin' writin' and rithmatic. And all that history and science stuff.

[Thorne]

If in your example there are no repercussions then the parents are to be faulted for failure of parenting.
Perhaps this may be AN origin of communal behaviour. But what about the kid that does not retaliate? Morals are about making a concious choice.

Depends on the repercussions. Telling the child he's been a bad boy and never to do that again is not punishment, it's giving the child the attention he wants. Parents don't really punish their kids anymore. And yes, morality is a learned behavior which allows one to make a conscious, hopefully informed, choice. And that's the point of this topic. Should young teens be allowed to make that choice for themselves? And if so, should they have the tools and information necessary to make that choice? I think they are making those choices, despite what their parents may want, which makes the first question moot. And makes the answer to the second question a resounding "YES"! The parents must provide the "tools", the moral background needed to make the choice. The schools must provide the information, the real-world biological information which they need to know. Then, if the young adults decide to engage in sexual activities, they should have the ability to obtain the condoms and birth control systems needed to keep them safe from disease and unwanted pregnancy.

Schools are not doing their job. Based on their rate of success. How young? Is it not better to deal with the questions when the child seeks the answer than for somebody to simply decide now is the time for all children to learn about sex?
As for what the schools do is to teach way more in cultural stuff than real education, ya know readin' writin' and rithmatic. And all that history and science stuff.

Ask yourself, Why are the schools not doing their jobs? Could it be because parents won't allow them to teach their kids about "dirty, nasty" sex? Could it be because parents won't allow the schools to discipline children for misbehavior? Is it because the parents don't want their kids learning that "science stuff" that says the Earth is more than 6000 years old and that "man evolved from monkeys?"
In short, perhaps the schools are failing because parents are forcing them to teach only those things which they, the parents, consider "moral" instead of teaching what is right.

[DuncanONeil]

Ask yourself, Why are the schools not doing their jobs? Could it be because parents won't allow them to teach their kids about "dirty, nasty" sex? Could it be because parents won't allow the schools to discipline children for misbehavior? Is it because the parents don't want their kids learning that "science stuff" that says the Earth is more than 6000 years old and that "man evolved from monkeys?"
In short, perhaps the schools are failing because parents are forcing them to teach only those things which they, the parents, consider "moral" instead of teaching what is right.

I was not being that specific. Schools are failing in general. By the evidence stated.
Schools also do not hold their students accountable for the work assigned. Kids are free to "choose" to do or not do the assignment. No one is permitted to be less successful than any of the others. Yes that is a bad thing! At least in the manner prosecuted by the schools.
"Science Stuff" is much larger than just biology. It includes; Chemistry, Math, Geography, Physics, and History. Unfortunately both Geography and History have turned into mere treatises on culture.
I would also like to see a return of Civics into the classroom!
I think the concept of a creation 6,000 years ago is a misinterpretation of something. And that monkey thing that is Darwin's fault!