Why are so many BDSM girls fat and ugly??

[Finding_Fantasy]

Originally posted by redEva
This tread should have been closed long time ago IMHO – Moderator!???

*winks at Eva* Well you're a moderator, why don't you do it. Just kidding.

In all seriousness, this thread was started by Manwhore who was our "dear friend" Whipit. The post you made a reply to was also our friend Whipit. It doesn't matter what you say to him, he is just out to irritate the living hell out of us. Which is why that the post he made was deleted. (Not by me mind you)

Despite this thread inflammaroty nature, I think the reson it has not been shut down was ecause there were some good posts/arguements/discussions despite what it was origanally meant for.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[redEva]

*grinning* heehee *rubs hands together* POWER muwahahahaha

yeah – I see what you saying – but I did say closed – not deleted *wink*

anyhow – good to see him/it gone. Lets go to something better

and BTW thank you moderators and Jinn i solemnly swear not to abuse the power invested in me!

*turns around and squints eyes on whom to kick!*

[Tree]

Being fat and ugly? - It's probably just due to getting older. When I was in my twenties I was 47kg (about 8 stone). Now I'm in my forties, I'm 107kg (about 17 stone). I'm 5' 3". In general, at least in developed countries like Australia and the States, people get fatter and uglier as they grow older, especially women.

Would I like to be slim and beautiful again? Sure, and it's not impossible - there are plenty of 40 and 50 year olds who look great. Do I want it enough to do anything about it? No. How do I know this? Because, if I did, I would be 8 stone, not 17 stone.

The thing is with people like you, whoreman, you're only interested in how people look, which to me makes you superficial and empty. Not someone I want to know. Most overweight women probably realise the advantages. Being "fat and ugly" weeds out anyone other than guys who are genuine people, who are prepared to see beyond the flesh to the person inside. And chemistry doesn't have eyes. Take a look around you. There are any number of squat ugly men with slim beautiful model like female partners, and even more gorgeous looking guys with wives/girlfriends who look the size of the back of a bus.

You can idealise about a model like woman all you like, and if you find one who wants to be with you, and is committed to the same empty ideals as you are, good luck to both of you. But my guess is you're going to miss out on a whole lot of potentially great, kinky, relationships, just because you automatically exclude the majority of the population (at least in Oz and the States).

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by burger_01
I can't believe this thread exists

It was a member that asked for the thread to be closed in the first place, so please try to retain a modicum of objectivity here.

And, as for the reason the post was removed. It was because he violated a rule posted in another thread. A thread directly referenced by the removed post. Aside from that, the member in questions has been banned from the site now in four or five different handles and his internet provider has been contacted regarding his abuse. So, if that's the person or type of person you wish to defend here, I doubt you will get along with the people here very well at all.

And the reason this thread is still here is because it managed to spark some actual, interesting, on-topic discussion that didn't degenerate into flaming and bickering about differences of opinions. So, despite the requests of the members to have the thread closed and/or removed and despite the reported posts from within the thread itself, the thread stilll exists.

Now, talk to me about censorship.

[Tree]

Well, from where I am sitting, you seem to have a thing about this particular 'would be participant, if only you'ld let him' on the forum. And as for flaming, seems to me your response is pretty tart and intolerant. I'm not defending anyone. I just liked the topic. Some healthy discussion, even if people disagree, - what's wrong with that?

[Moggy]

Healthy discussion is good, and there's plenty of it here. BDSM, Iraq etc. Lots of difference viewpoints coexist here.

However, sometimes there are posts that are only intended to disrupt and annoy others, while others are downright rude or bordering on insane. I'm happy to see them deleted ASAP, so that real adult (in all senses!) conversation can continue.

Welcome to the forum, Tree.

[Tree]

Hi Moggy and thanks for the welcome.

Who is to say what is insulting to one person would be insulting to another? If some of the responses are deleted before we get a chance to read them, we'll never know, will we!? I can understand someone wanting to censor a knitting site, but this one...??? I would have thought BDSM should pretty much be anything goes. Clearly not - I stand corrected!

[Finding_Fantasy]

Originally posted by Tree
I would have thought BDSM should pretty much be anything goes. Clearly not - I stand corrected!

Hi Tree. First off, welcome to the site.

Second, the poster that started this thread, Manwhore was banned because he has signed up on many different handles. Why was he banned time and time again? Because everytime he came her posted something rude, inflammatory, and of no use except to cause trouble. He would out right insult people and cause trouble. He was not intersted in chatting or making contribustions but just to see how many peole he could piss off.

Also, I do not know if you have read it yet, but there is a Code of Conduct that must be followed by all members. You can read it by clicking Here There is a set of guidelines on which to follow for this site to keep it running smoothly. We tolerate disucssion about pretty much anything but as my mother used to say "It's not what you say it's how you say it."

And you're right censorship is not always a good thing and we did not censor this one. Why? Because like I said in a previous post, there were some good honest discussion to come out of this thread so it has been kept open. However, if you could have seen some of manshore's previous posts (also known more commonly as Whipit) you would understand.

So please, take a look at the CoC and see that we are very tolerant here but there are some things that just are not acceptable. Just because we are lovers of BDSM does not mean that we should allow rudeness and those who are just out to hurt feelings and fire up our tempers.

[Neopadinski]

The way I see it, this thread has not been deleted/removed not because of its starter, but because it triggered such a deep and provocative discussion. Had a flame war erupted and failed to cease within a timely manner, I would assume that the thread would've been removed. Also, the topic shifted from this "manwhore" to a discussion on what is considered "fat" or "beautiful"; rather than focusing on material that is offensive, it turned into a simple exchange of opinions.

[MrJerseyGuy]

I've been silently following the thread with some interest. For my part, I'm 45 and work very hard to stay in good shape. I have to admit that I am attracted to very slim women. My current sub (and love of my life) is 30 and 5'2. She's lucky if she ways 100 pounds soaking wet. I don't think that makes me "shallow", although I suppose some would disagree. That's just what turns me on...

HOWEVER...I have always found it amusing that virtually all men are so critical of a woman's appearance and body when 90% of the ones who are being critical seem to be overweight themselves. I work in a bar part time and constantly hear groups of men commenting on different women that walk into the place. They all sit there in a row with their beer bellies, five o'clock shadow and a big order of cheese fries in front of them, yet they talk about women as if they themselves were Brad Pitt. C'mon there guys, let he who is without fat cast the first stone!

[sm4hg]

Well, I finally have to tell my opinion as well.
From my own experience I can only tell, that there is no such thing as a preference for me. My partners were both overweight and slim, but they ALWAYS were beautiful. For the time being I prefere small tits, in former times I preferred larger ones. So I'm not even able to tell you what "beauty" means to me. Of course there are poeple out there which make me turn my head. But I always find it amusing how different they look. I still haven't found out what it is that makes me look twice. But it's definitely not waht is called the "perfect" look. Most of the times it's right that, that makes me look away.

[Tree]

Good on you, Mr JerseyGuy, for staying in shape. Personally, I can't be bothered. Much like your beer bellied customers at the bar, I expect. There probably isn't the same incentive for men to stay in shape as there is for women. Looks are probably irrelevant to the kinds of things women value, like kindness, competence, being clean, not being a jerk, not being moody, being independent, not needing to be mothered/babysat.

In my experience of guys though, for all they make a big deal about how women look, they are just so easy to pick up and hook. When chemistry strikes a lot of guys seem to lose their sight. That's the irony of how this thread started, that manwhore was looking at online, and presumably getting aroused by, the very same (fat and ugly) women that he was deriding.

[Tree]

The other thing about women and men is that they probably get "fat and ugly", if indeed they go this way, over a long period of time. By that time, they are probably in a fairly good relationship and the history and bond,(not to mention the effort they have made to work on their sexual preferences together), far outweigh what either of them look like 10 or 20 years on.

Aaah, I see a great future for the fat and ugly, of either sex, as poster pin ups on the web.

[pandemonium]

Ok, this may be the wine talking but,

for fucks sake.......who's business is it anyway? If you ain't doing 'em, why care? Really?

If I'm not sleeping with you, I don't give a damn what you think of my looks.

I spent 12 years working in strip clubs. It takes all freakin' kinds. And there is always, always someone who is standing around talkin' about what is wrong with you. Your never good enough, never tall enough, never what is considered "perfect" to one or many and the drop dead bombshell to 50,000 others.
That is just the way life goes. So trying to match some ideal perfect vision in someone elses head is flippin' ludicrous. NEWSFLASH-
SAME DAMN PROBLEM IN THE VANILLA WORLD.

[Alex Anderson]

Originally posted by Manwhore
Have you ever noticed that many girls into BDSM are fat and quite unattractive???

I beleive many of these women succumb to BDSM as a result of not being able to get any "normal" sex from guys and thus are forced to do BDSM to get attention

Aha. I for one, AGREE. Im sorry, the BDSM life we see here is sort of like a flaking, a crust to the UGLIER side, where fat women crush men in sex and.. oh god *faints*

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by Alex Anderson
Aha. I for one, AGREE. Im sorry, the BDSM life we see here is sort of like a flaking, a crust to the UGLIER side, where fat women crush men in sex and.. oh god *faints*

Well, Alex, as one of those guys with the "ugly, fat woman" I take offense to that statement.

The neat thing is, though, that as one of those guys that's also a moderator of this site, I can make you disappear, along with all your posts.

So, why don't you do yourself, the members here and me all a favor and take you immature, no account, probably only 13 year old ass and get it the fuck off this site. Otherwise, if I see you here, posting anymore of this kind of bonehead shit, I'll take personal pleasure in banning you and making all your little-minded posts disappear.

Bye now. :[

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by pandemonium
You're never good enough, never tall enough, never what is considered "perfect" to one or many and the drop dead bombshell to 50,000 others. That is just the way life goes. So trying to match some ideal perfect vision in someone elses head is flippin' ludicrous. NEWSFLASH- SAME DAMN PROBLEM IN THE VANILLA WORLD.

So very true. Those who want to heed wise words are paying attention

Originally posted by Alex Anderson
I for one, AGREE. Im sorry, the BDSM life we see here is sort of like a flaking, a crust to the UGLIER side, where fat women crush men in sex and.. oh god *faints*

I just wonder, Alex, what kind of experiences you have had to hold such a view. Maybe you should share that with the rest of the forum.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
I just wonder, Alex, what kind of experiences you have had to hold such a view. Maybe you should share that with the rest of the forum.

Or maybe he could just not be insulting to the larger women in our membership and not flagrantly violate the Code of Conduct in any of his future posts.

I think that would be better.

Because if he's just going to insult people and make a nuisance of himself, I don't want to even know what his experiences are.

[Alex Anderson]

Since when were you Adolf Hitler? I am not intending to be as cruel as the topic poster, but i believe in general he is correct. Ban me if you wish.

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
Well, Alex, as one of those guys with the "ugly, fat woman" I take offense to that statement.

The neat thing is, though, that as one of those guys that's also a moderator of this site, I can make you disappear, along with all your posts.

So, why don't you do yourself, the members here and me all a favor and take you immature, no account, probably only 13 year old ass and get it the fuck off this site. Otherwise, if I see you here, posting anymore of this kind of bonehead shit, I'll take personal pleasure in banning you and making all your little-minded posts disappear.

Bye now. :[

[Neopadinski]

I don't think Tourguide has a problem with your opinion at all, I think me probably just believes you could've worded it better, that's all.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by Alex Anderson
Since when were you Adolf Hitler? I am not intending to be as cruel as the topic poster, but i believe in general he is correct. Ban me if you wish.

I'm not being a facist dictator, but I am making you aware that there is a Code of Conduct here at this site and in it, it asks for people not to be insulting of other members on the forums.

Now, even though people have requested that this obviously vulgar and thoughtless thread be closed, I have allowed it to remain as a topic for discussion because it actually took on a thought-provoking conversational atmosphere. This served two purposes, in my opinion. First, it allowed something usually only discussed delicately to be discussed under and indelicate flag so people were more likely to communicate their views. Second, it thumbed the general nose at the thread creator, who was only looking to stir people up and create turmoil. That works just fine for me.

And, if you feel he is correct, then don't look at the pictures. Keep your negative comments to yourself. I don't want to hear them and neither do the people with the guts enough to post them to this site. In fact, if you bothered to read the Personal Photography thread, you'd see that it comes with its own set of rules. One of which is to not be insulting to the people posting or the people within the photographs taken. The resultant action should have been an immediate ban for you and the removal of all your posts from these forums. Consider yourself lucky for even getting a warning. The guy that started this thread did not.

So, if you want to play nice and share well with others, by all means continue to post threads like your Latex Rot one. If you want to be an asshole and get kicked, then keep posting replies like the one quoted here and the reply previously posted in this thread. There, you now have a polite reminder to not say anything if you can't say anything nice.

Sieg heil!

[WANDA's_toy]

WHY DO I GET THE FEELING ITS GETTING QUITE PERSONELL OUT HERE?

and a Question:

Do the rules of conduct apply for the MODERATORS too?

[Curtis]

All right, as long as someone else has brought this up...

The last part of this thread, starting with Alex Anderson's first post here, is a sterling example of the problem I have with the Code of Conduct. When I read that post, I laughed and thought that it was witty enough that I 'search'ed for his previous posts to see what I was missing. Tourguide reads the same post, and issues the guy a warning. I actually felt Alex's reply to the warning was much more offensive than his original post was (which still makes me grin: "...a flaking, a crust to the UGLIER side, where fat women crush men in sex and.. oh god *faints*" -- sounds to me like he's jealous!).

Then Tourguide, applying the 'straw man' theory of argumentation as he is wont to do, goes off on this: "And, if you feel he is correct, then don't look at the pictures. Keep your negative comments to yourself. I don't want to hear them and neither do the people with the guts enough to post them to this site. In fact, if you bothered to READ the Personal Photography thread, you'd see that it comes with its own set of rules. One of which is not to be insulting to the people posting or the people within the photographs taken. The resultant action should have been an immediate ban for you..."

This absolutely astounded me. I rushed off to the Personal Photography thread to find out what Alex could have said to bring on such a reaction and found...nothing. Not even a notice of a deleted post. As near as I can tell, unless Tourguide was reacting to something that had been deleted, he invented an insulting remark, put it in Alex's mouth, then castigated him for it. And this is not the first time he's done that. Alex never mentions either photos posted here or the Personal Photography thread in any of his seven posts, and he certainly never insulted either 'the people posting or the people within the photographs taken'.

In Alex's line, "Im sorry, the BDSM life we see here', the word 'here' clearly refers to the quotation immediately preceding, which he went to the trouble of including so that no one could mistake his meaning.

And that's what I don't like about the Code of Conduct. Alex Anderson gets threatened with a ban over something he didn't do, while Mobius insults people left and right (not since Christmas, though -- good for you) and faces no consequences whatsoever. It was suggested by someone I was having an exchange with in a thread in the upper part of the Forum that humor could be a defense against a charge of violating the Code, but it sure didn't work for Alex.

[Finding_Fantasy]

However, Curtis, I did not find the post humorous myself. To say that women that are in BDSM are fat and ugly implies that I am fat an ugly because am I not a woman involved in BDSM?

Yes, I know that I am larger than what many consider beautiful, but that does not mean that posts such as Alex's do not affect me and my feelings...joke or no joke. I found the post's tone to be mocking and derrogatory and I did not find any humor in it at all... but perhaps you did Curtis since it was not you who was being insulted. People seem to find humor and entertainment in the bruising of other's emotions it seems...which I find very sad.

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by Alex Anderson
Since when were you Adolf Hitler? I am not intending to be as cruel as the topic poster, but i believe in general he is correct. Ban me if you wish.

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
I'm not being a facist dictator, but I am making you aware that there is a Code of Conduct ...
... There, you now have a polite reminder to not say anything if you can't say anything nice.
Sieg heil!

When I first read Alex Anderson's post I found it misinformed, a bit broad and likely to insult some readers. I wondered why he posted such comment and even asked about it. Yet, is it surprising that he lashed back like that after BDSM_Tourguide reacted the way he did?

And most important, where is this thread going if the Supermoderator uses "Sieg Heil!" as a signature for a "polite reminder". I am sure both will say that the allusions to Nazy dictatorship were made with irony or sarcasm but even that is insulting to some, if not most readers

Peace!

[BruceBoxer]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka

And most important, where is this thread going if the Supermoderator uses "Sieg Heil!" as a signature for a "polite reminder". I am sure both will say that the allusions to Nazy dictatorship were made with irony or sarcasm but even that is insulting to some, if not most readers

Peace!

It's alright TG, I'm not insulted--know where you're coming from; however, I keep having to look back top to see what the heck this thread is about (short little span of attention). If you are worried about offending some by signing off with [I]Sieg Heil[I] when you're accused of being a Nazi, perhaps you can use one of my personal favorites, "Bite me."

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... I will just say that I found no humour whatsoever in Alex's post. I found it offensive.

Wt: It's not personal. I just don't like people carrying on by being openly insulting on these forums. Yes, perhaps my "no account" comment was out of line and I should retract it. However, that is all I will feel unjust about posting. In my opinion, making fun or being insulting to someone because of their weight is immature.

Curtis: The "here" comment to which you refer, I took to mean here, as in, in the BDSM Library Forums. If that's the case, then I take heavy exception to the statement made. My wife is overweight, but she's surely not "fat and ugly" by any stretch of the imagination. If people can't see beyond the skin, then I don't want to read their opinions.

Nikka: The last time I checked, I was not a baby-killing, genocidal fascist with world domination fantasies. So, yes, I took a lot of offense at being called one. I have never locked a child, elderly person, Jew, Slav, Gypsy, infirm, mentally handicapped or deformed person in an oven and burned them to death. I'm sure you might be offended if you were accused of that, too, as calling someone Hitler would imply. So, yes, my remark was sarcastic and justifiably so, given the context by which I was insulted. Why would you want to defend someone that accuses others of being genocidal, megalomaniacal sociopaths?

Bruce: You're right. I probably should have just said "Bite me." Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.


Now, if anyone has to say on the subject of weight, personality and how they relate to BDSM, then please continue.

[woodsman'sgame]

OK I usually keep quiet and stay out of these conflicts because I am supposed to be submissive after all, but this time I am saying something.

Alex's post was insulting and TG's original response was extreme in its language. There is a need for restraint on both sides.

Alex, have you ever thought that some things are better left unsaid, for they do nobody any good and hurt some people.
You tried to dissipate what you said with humor, but it was still insulting.
It also hurt you indirectly. You will find few people here or elsewhere that would be sympathetic to you and agree with your insulting others. This is not a good way to start a relationship with the others here on the forum.

Tourguide, you did your job as moderator, but the language you used in your original response was insulting and offensive and not in keeping with your role.

Tourguide stated:
" So, why don't you do yourself, the members here and me all a favor and take you immature, no account, probably only 13 year old ass and get it the fuck off this site. Otherwise, if I see you here, posting anymore of this kind of bonehead shit, I'll take personal pleasure in banning you and making all your little-minded posts disappear."

Moderation please Moderator.

[fetish101]

It would appear to me that although Whippit (or whatever his name was) was banned for it, if his true goal was to create turmoil and conflict...he succeeded

[Neopadinski]

I wouldn't consider it turmoil...I thought of it as more "heated debate". Either way, he caused a mass discussion on the topic.