Equality?

[DuncanONeil]

But one must always analyze "proverbs".
I cannot really analyse fortune cookies, proverbs, bumper stickers, tea leaves or whatever. Yes there is some truth in them but it is far from the whole truth.

Everything can be analyzed! You have said so yourself in other posts. Am I now to conclude that only those things you favor deserve analysis? By implication failure to analyze puts you in a position of, alternately, blindly accepting or blindly dismissing data.

I suppose I was mostly considering the last eight years of school. I did consider the cost issue.
Well maybe this is why we all differ. You are talking from your personal background, steelish is talking from the basis of hers and I am not talking from my own personal background just the values and principles I was taught to believe in.

Here you are expressing that which has been clear in a lot of your writings, you assume. Neither I nor Steelish are capable of being so cavalier with our values and principles as you seem to think people are capable. Those are an ingrained part of all of us. What you are referring to, improperly I think, to a discussion based on values and principles leavened with personal experience.

if you do not work and apply yourself as a student everything is wasted
I said children do work - doing schoolwork. Steelish talked about work meaning doing chores for cash to learn the value of a buck and importance of hard work. Yes of course if they dont apply themselves as student then the education is not entirely wasted but they are not making the most of the opportunity but is this the same work as cash for chores.

Yes! It is the same!

First, there is no way that education can be free. Here education is not within the authority of the Congress. They should not be involved!
By free I mean at zero financial cost to student or family. Governments (local-national) should pay for it and have a degree of say in educational matters. My view is obviously different to yours on this one.

I have some small concerns of the input of government but as I said, very clearly Congress has no authority to intrude on the prosecution of education. I am very aware that such in not the case in all nations but it is here! The post high school level of education is divided between state schools and private schools. It is clear that the state schools are getting significant support from the state. If the state so chooses to do fine. But the Feds need to take their ball and go home. Lets include the teachers unions in that, they are weakening education as we speak.

Education is an investment in self! Perhaps in your statement it is true that America has a better education, but in my estimation the education in America sucks!
Better than China - but thats not saying much is it. As for Europe-America comparison I'm sure that would be a hot potato (we won't even agree on how to pronounce that word). Everybody benefits from education. The student from better job and pay. The government from more tax and more manageable citizens (unlikely to riot). The country from increased wealth, better products and services etc.

See in this we largely agree! I would defy you to find anyone who would not. The argument arises in execution.
Government (in case it is not yet clear the preceding word in that form refers to the Feds) and teacher unions are an impediment to good education. As a result we are losing our educated base.

Yes few make it to the top. That is because there are FEW at the top.I am talking percentage. What percent of CEOs in America don't have a degree and also what percent of high earners are in jobs where you can succeed without a degree. The number of people steelish is talking about who made it to the top without education is few both in number and percent.

That is really an apocraphyl statement. With 31 million companies in the US employing over 500 people determining such a data set is a large task. Especially including positions below the CEO. But even so we are looking at a set of the US that encompasses a mere 10% of the country. Even a small percent of them is significant. Nobody gives two thoughts about youth that seek to be major league football players and that data set is, in total, only about 850 people nationally! Much smaller than the business community! And it is way easier to start a new business than a new football team.

The difference between having an idea, a good work ethic, and drive to build a company and becoming a doctor or a lawyer are different tracks.
I agree mostly but not entirely. I think back in the days of Henry Ford and the like you would be right but in todays world I am not so sure. Yep a Henry Ford today could probaby have a good garage and be moderately successful but I doubt he could have the same level of success. The difference between now and then is the higher level of technology and knowledge needed. I am not sure on this one but suspect I am right.

1900 or now it is not the knowledge that makes success. It is the idea and drive. Even the Wright brothers did not do all of their airplanes themselves. Even today I do not need all the knowledge. I do need to know how to find it though. That is where the drive comes in.

Did you see the posting regarding the standard of living of the "poor" in the USA?
I briefly looked but the moment I saw stats on TV and house ownership I knew my defintion of poor was very different from what was being discussed. By poor I mean eating out of trash cans or not enough to give your kids healthy diets.

This is why when a discussion of any of the "poor", "middle class", or "rich" come up I need a definition. Not so much because things but because there are so many assumptions. The category of "poor" you infer (not define) are infinitesimal. Not to say they are to be ignored. But we need to know what we are talking about. The lifestyle of the officially poor in the US puts the normal life style of some Europeans to shame. No wonder so many want to come here if the poor can live so well. Much of that stuff I did not have growing up, but then a bunch of it did not exist either. I still felt poor though we were, according to the stats, not.

PS Steelish - If this topic is to be discussed in terms of your personal family background you make it impossible for me to respond without running the risk of offending you again. I am in effect silenced.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a cop out to me!!