Hell

[13'sbadkitty]

It is as elitist in my opinion to feel that anyone who doesn't agree with oneself is either crazy, silly or dangerous. People have been killing people for all sorts of crazy reasons throughout time. Religion can be used just like money or property.
I think that all things are paradoxical. Its too easy to say it has to go because there are bad people in the world who do hurtful things and use something as the justification of it. Being respectful doesn't just mean that you don't say to someone they are deranged or silly for religious belief, it means you don't assume they are deranged or silly for having belief. I agree with you that there are evil people that should be fought against. Thats not even close to a reasonable proportion of people with those beliefs. There is nothing silly about people feeling like something gives direction or purpose to their lives. As a parent there is a deep spiritual connection to my kids. To me when I saw the sunrise this morning took my puppy out for a walk the world was quiet and covered with snow. I knew that i wanted to post the pictures i took here on this thread as it was a moment i knew a connection with something bigger than myself that wasn't to comfort pain or make someone else feel small. it was just beauty

[Thorne]

It is as elitist in my opinion to feel that anyone who doesn't agree with oneself is either crazy, silly or dangerous.

I agree. Unless they actually DO something crazy, silly or dangerous.

People have been killing people for all sorts of crazy reasons throughout time.

Again, I agree. But very few have been as effective at it as the Catholic Church or the Muslim jihadists.

Religion can be used just like money or property.

I'm not sure I understand this one. How can you use religion to buy food? In fact, if you could buy food with prayer there wouldn't be any hunger in the world.

Being respectful doesn't just mean that you don't say to someone they are deranged or silly for religious belief, it means you don't assume they are deranged or silly for having belief.

Not even if their belief is silly? Or deranged?
I'm not talking about individual people, here, but entire organizations which are leading their followers down these paths of irrationality.

There is nothing silly about people feeling like something gives direction or purpose to their lives.

I agree with you again. I've said so many times. As long as they use it for their own lives and don't try to force it upon my life or the lives of innocent children.

And let's not forget Martin Luther's attacks on the use of reason to make our lives better.

[denuseri]

Again, I agree. But very few have been as effective at it as the Catholic Church or the Muslim jihadists.

We will just forget the whole atheist driven communist progons and resultant wars in russia, china and southeast asia then too?

Where btw with the aide of "science" in a few short years more people were tortured and killed than in all of the crusades, inquisitions and jihads of history combined.

[Thorne]

We will just forget the whole atheist driven communist progons and resultant wars in russia, china and southeast asia then too?

Where btw with the aide of "science" in a few short years more people were tortured and killed than in all of the crusades, inquisitions and jihads of history combined.

While the leaders of the communist movement may have been atheist, such atheism had little or nothing to do with their actions. Their whole purpose was to control the very minds of their subjects. To do this they had to remove any other controlling forces, such as religion. It was greed and the lust for power that drove those men, not atheism. And not science. The only use the communists had for science was in trying to keep up with western advances in armaments.

Can we say the same of those killed for the sake of religions?

An interesting list here, too.

[thir]

While the leaders of the communist movement may have been atheist, such atheism had little or nothing to do with their actions. Their whole purpose was to control the very minds of their subjects. To do this they had to remove any other controlling forces, such as religion. It was greed and the lust for power that drove those men, not atheism. And not science. The only use the communists had for science was in trying to keep up with western advances in armaments.

Can we say the same of those killed for the sake of religions?

?
So if you kill by way of religious intolerance, it is worse that to kill for lust for power?
The dead are just as dead.

[thir]

People have been killing people for all sorts of crazy reasons throughout time.

Again, I agree. But very few have been as effective at it as the Catholic Church or the Muslim jihadists.

Djengis Khan? Nazis? Japaneese medieval warfare? First world war?

In the (to me) very understandable outrage over the way religion can be abused, let us not forget that people kill in great numbers for all other kinds of reasons - greed, powerlust, or to make the world a better place