What kind of questions...

[leah06]

I think you misunderstand me.

I know there is a difference between playing out a fantasy and having the real thing happen. There is a HUGE difference between forced and voluntary. That was not what I was saying at all.

What I was saying was that the difference between those that would dream of submitting to that fantasy and those that are horrified by it are so vastly different, that a rapist taking pickings out of a submissive community makes no sense to me.

I'm so sorry. I don't think I've ever directly disagreed with someone on here, and I wouldn't do it now except that this is so important to me. I'm not telling you what you feel, or what other people feel, but for myself - and I do believe for many other people - it is possible to "dream of submitting to that fantasy" AND be "horrified" by the idea of the reality. And the idea, totally mistaken in my opinion, that a rapist would somehow skip over the bdsm community as being too close to his own mindset, is very disturbing to me. I don't believe that there is ANY relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of rape, any more than I believe there is a relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of torture.

Historically, there have been too many categories of women who have been afforded unequal protection against the crime of rape - wives could not be conjugally raped, a prostitute could not be raped (it was "theft of services"), women who were perceived as unchaste were either disbelieved or simply considered to have deserved it - and I don't like to see, even by implication, ANY group of women shuttled into that category for ANY reason. I know this was not your intention, but dividing women into two categories - those who fantasize about rape and those who are horrified by the idea - I think plays into that very damaging mindset.

I'm so sorry to be confrontational about this. I'm addressing the idea that was raised and not anyone personally. I really hope, though, that this post is taken seriously.

[Zarine13]

I'm so sorry. I don't think I've ever directly disagreed with someone on here, and I wouldn't do it now except that this is so important to me. I'm not telling you what you feel, or what other people feel, but for myself - and I do believe for many other people - it is possible to "dream of submitting to that fantasy" AND be "horrified" by the idea of the reality. And the idea, totally mistaken in my opinion, that a rapist would somehow skip over the bdsm community as being too close to his own mindset, is very disturbing to me. I don't believe that there is ANY relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of rape, any more than I believe there is a relevant connection between bdsm and the reality of torture.

Historically, there have been too many categories of women who have been afforded unequal protection against the crime of rape - wives could not be conjugally raped, a prostitute could not be raped (it was "theft of services"), women who were perceived as unchaste were either disbelieved or simply considered to have deserved it - and I don't like to see, even by implication, ANY group of women shuttled into that category for ANY reason. I know this was not your intention, but dividing women into two categories - those who fantasize about rape and those who are horrified by the idea - I think plays into that very damaging mindset.

I'm so sorry to be confrontational about this. I'm addressing the idea that was raised and not anyone personally. I really hope, though, that this post is taken seriously.

Rachel, you'll have to forgive me here, I'm not as good at getting my thoughts into print as you are.

I totally agree with you. What I was saying was not what Thrall was saying or what you are thinking. I agree there is a difference between the fantasy and the real thing, and it's possible to have the fantasy while being horrified by the real thing. I was thinking traditional, hide in the bushes, jump out and grab a woman rapist. To be that kind of rapist in this kind of community doesn't compute with me (again, not saying it isn't possible).

Now I *can* see how Thrall's example would work.

voxelectronica was right, I think we were talking about two different things, I'm just not as clear with my words as others are