"So are you saying that a homosexual can be a part of your group and not feel pressured to become hetero? "

Yes


"Okay I can get that you want to share something good, but you said that if you had a magic wand you would convert everyone because you believe what you have is great and right. That's a bit different than sharing something you love with a friend. That's force and that doesn't go with your freewill statement."

If I had a magic wand I would also turn all white chocolate into zero calorie dark chocolate. As I had hoped I had made clear, the freewill statement over-rides my magic wand statement (except in the case of chocolate).


"Death and taxes? lol Actually believe it or not, no I don't believe in any absolutes so I have a very difficult time understanding how someone can believe in an absolute."

This I think is the crux of our difference of opinion. It took me a while to acknowledge to myself that I did believe in some absolutes, still in denial about taxes, although the tax man refuses to be convinced. The greyer values become the easier they are everyone to accept, the more inclusive they are. So it is tempting to add nullifying caveats to every statement. But taken to its logical conclusion society will sink to a level where anything and everything is of equal value. Sounds good until you think that it means that a deliberate and hurtful word would be of equal worth as a kind and loving one. That in a court of law a lie would be considered equal to the truth…..


"I used the term church because you used it when you said your friend introduced you to it. There seems to be a fine line between what you see as encouragement and what you see as manipulation, but then I don't know which group you belong to so I can only judge so much."

In the case of encouragement / manipulation not only is it a case of degree, but is primarily a matter of the underlying motivation of the person encouraging or manipulating. There is also a fine line between abuse and between having my arse made so tender that for days I flinch when I sit down. The bruises and other outcomes may be the same, but I have no difficulty knowing where that line is.

cariad