Quote Originally Posted by cariad(CC)
How lovely to have a considered response, and one to keep me on my toes too!

It is well known that the standards of behaviour which the bible lays down are very high. These cover all areas of life. When I wrote my original post I did not consider which behaviours I was referring to. Yes, we would discourage violence and we would also discourage homosexuality – but we would not discourage either violent people and or homosexual people. There is an acceptance that we all fall a long way short of our goals and if, as and when people wish to address issues in their lives they are supported in doing so, but they are never put under pressure to do so. The God I know does not have a big stick, but does have a big heart.
So are you saying that a homosexual can be a part of your group and not feel pressured to become hetero?

Smiles. Why would we try to convert people – because we believe that what we have is great. The same way as if you stayed in my home I might share some favourite music with you, because I wanted to share something I thought was good. But I ask you take note of my subsequent sentence; ‘Our freewill is a gift from him, and no-one has a right to take that away’. I hold firmly to that principle.
Okay I can get that you want to share something good, but you said that if you had a magic wand you would convert everyone because you believe what you have is great and right. That's a bit different than sharing something you love with a friend. That's force and that doesn't go with your freewill statement.

I am very sure of love as concept and know it comes in many different ways. Why do I have no difficulty in believing that when I have no ‘proof’? Because I have experienced it. If you asked me to give an example of how I know I love someone, or how someone loves me, I could probably pick more holes in my example than you could. Yet in reality I hope you also believe in, and have experienced love. I also firmly believe that it is right for children and adults to be love and be loved. If I come across some who is not experiencing love I will endeavour to take them under my wing and offer them some.

It is the same with my faith, I have experienced God in my life. I can give you examples, some more scientific than others, but all of which could have holes picked in them. In the same way I believe that to give and receive love is right, I believe that to be in a loving relationship with God is right. You are correct in saying that if you disagree with me on that I think you are wrong. That is not a judgemental use of the word. I merely means that I hold an opinion which I believe is an absolute. I would fight tooth and nail for your right to hold to your opinion, but given where I am coming from, I would like the opportunity to share my opinion with you.

Do you believe in any absolutes?
Death and taxes? lol Actually believe it or not, no I don't believe in any absolutes so I have a very difficult time understanding how someone can believe in an absolute.

Ever since the Roman’s discovered the power of Christianity governments and society have attempted to us it to manipulate people. The world’s history is riddled with actions taken supposedly in God’s name, but ultimately for man’s glory. You use the term church in your question, which is an ambiguous term. The group I belong to would, I hope never try to manipulate people. They may offer suggestions, but there is no pressure or condemnation if the suggestions are ignored. There is nothing biblical about manipulating or coercing people. Jesus came to offer an alternative, but not to lay down the law.
I used the term church because you used it when you said your friend introduced you to it. There seems to be a fine line between what you see as encouragement and what you see as manipulation, but then I don't know which group you belong to so I can only judge so much.

Have I helped or added to your confusion?

cariad
lol Well I dunno exactly. I have to say I'm enjoying the exchange so far though. Thanks for not reacting negatively.