The Right to Offend

[Thorne]

And here's me thinking that I'm the pompous arse on these threads!

Must be nice to know you're not alone.

(Now don't everyone get all disturbed by this! I'm only agreeing with the man! Sheesh, can't anyone take a joke anymore?)

[wmrs2]

Must be nice to know you're not alone.

(Now don't everyone get all disturbed by this! I'm only agreeing with the man! Sheesh, can't anyone take a joke anymore?)

Gosh! It is only a game. But, it is fun to play with friends.

Let's get on target with this thread, I agree.

Can I ask a question that might need to be answered? I think we mostly agree that we have the right to hurt another's feelings. But, what I ask is whether it is smart, intelligent, wise (all that cognitive stuff) to exercise your right? Can you think of instances where being right and saying so is harmful. In my younger days, there were many times that I cut my nose off to spite my face. Sometime I still fall into that trap.

One example, it has been mention here about how Islam responds to criticism. Burning houses and killing people is rather an extreme response. Personally you may think Islam is a dumb religion. You have a right to say so but is it smart to say so?

[mkemse]

Gosh! It is only a game. But, it is fun to play with friends.

Let's get on target with this thread, I agree.

Can I ask a question that might need to be answered? I think we mostly agree that we have the right to hurt another's feelings. But, what I ask is whether it is smart, intelligent, wise (all that cognitive stuff) to exercise your right? Can you think of instances where being right and saying so is harmful. In my younger days, there were many times that I cut my nose off to spite my face. Sometime I still fall into that trap.

One example, it has been mention here about how Islam responds to criticism. Burning houses and killing people is rather an extreme response. Personally you may think Islam is a dumb religion. You have a right to say so but is it smart to say so?

I have heard many Islamic Clerics in the United State say that the Koran specificly states in it, that The Islamic Faith does NOT condone any type of violence such as killing, bombings ect, and that those who commit those crime, mainly the terrorists in the name of Islam have their own "Distorted" interpretation the Koran and that most Islamics world wide do not support or believe in what the terrorists do si in thiscase it is the few again the many and the Terrosits are making it apear that ALL Muslins andone of the Islamic Faith supports what the Terrorist do
Also as ironic as this is Osama Bin Ladin acutaly worked for and was paid by the United States in the 1980's during battles again Russia, my how times have changed

Made in the USA

In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

Following an internal PDPA power struggle in December 1979 which toppled Afghanistan's leader, thousands of Soviet troops entered the country to prevent the new government's fall. This only galvanized the disparate fundamentalist factions. Their reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle in the eyes of many Afghans.

The Soviet Union was eventually to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989 and the mujaheddin captured the capital, Kabul, in 1992.

Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.





According to Ahmed Rashid, a correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review, in 1986 CIA chief William Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI proposal to recruit from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. At least 100,000 Islamic militants flocked to Pakistan between 1982 and 1992 (some 60,000 attended fundamentalist schools in Pakistan without necessarily taking part in the fighting).

John Cooley, a former journalist with the US ABC television network and author of Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism, has revealed that Muslims recruited in the US for the mujaheddin were sent to Camp Peary, the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where young Afghans, Arabs from Egypt and Jordan, and even some African-American “black Muslims” were taught “sabotage skills”.

Bin Ladin was one of those recuit by the US governemnt

[mkemse]

Gosh! It is only a game. But, it is fun to play with friends.

Let's get on target with this thread, I agree.

Can I ask a question that might need to be answered? I think we mostly agree that we have the right to hurt another's feelings. But, what I ask is whether it is smart, intelligent, wise (all that cognitive stuff) to exercise your right? Can you think of instances where being right and saying so is harmful. In my younger days, there were many times that I cut my nose off to spite my face. Sometime I still fall into that trap.

One example, it has been mention here about how Islam responds to criticism. Burning houses and killing people is rather an extreme response. Personally you may think Islam is a dumb religion. You have a right to say so but is it smart to say so?

I have heard many Islamic Clerics in the United State say that the Koran specificly states in it, that The Islamic Faith does NOT condone any type of violence such as killing, bombings ect, and that those who commit those crime, mainly the terrorists in the name of Islam have their own "Distorted" interpretation the Koran and that most Islamics world wide do not support or believe in what the terrorists do si in thiscase it is the few again the many and the Terrosits are making it apear that ALL Muslins andone of the Islamic Faith supports what the Terrorist do
Also as ironic as this is Osama Bin Ladin acutaly worked for and was paid by the United States in the 1980's during battles again Russia, my how times have changed

Made in the USA

In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

Following an internal PDPA power struggle in December 1979 which toppled Afghanistan's leader, thousands of Soviet troops entered the country to prevent the new government's fall. This only galvanized the disparate fundamentalist factions. Their reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle in the eyes of many Afghans.

The Soviet Union was eventually to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989 and the mujaheddin captured the capital, Kabul, in 1992.

Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

Simply Put OUR CIA created Bin Ladin and paid ihm





According to Ahmed Rashid, a correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review, in 1986 CIA chief William Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI proposal to recruit from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. At least 100,000 Islamic militants flocked to Pakistan between 1982 and 1992 (some 60,000 attended fundamentalist schools in Pakistan without necessarily taking part in the fighting).

John Cooley, a former journalist with the US ABC television network and author of Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism, has revealed that Muslims recruited in the US for the mujaheddin were sent to Camp Peary, the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where young Afghans, Arabs from Egypt and Jordan, and even some African-American “black Muslims” were taught “sabotage skills”.

Bin Ladin was one of those recuit by the US governemnt

[wmrs2]

This was good information. I enjoyed reading it. You apparently did some research and some reading. Do you have any suggestions how we can put it to use in someway to increase our understanding in world politics? Did you have any specific purpose in doing this research that you would share with us? Thank you.

[mkemse]

This was good information. I enjoyed reading it. You apparently did some research and some reading. Do you have any suggestions how we can put it to use in someway to increase our understanding in world politics? Did you have any specific purpose in doing this research that you would share with us? Thank you.

I do the reasearch to learn, to verify things i heard to make sure they are correct, rshter thn assuming they are, when i first heard this about Bin Ladin, i did not believe it , but history speaks for itsefl,
i thing 1 thing EVERY needs to understand is that these Militants to NOT represent Islam as a faith, any more the say the KKK represents White Pepole of the South, people have i am sure distorted intepretations of the Bible, The Torah, and otherreligious Holy Books and it is imprtant to know that thse are fringe elements of these relgions
I know white peole not klan members that Hate Jews simply becausethey are Jewsih, or Hate Cathlic because the Church has idiology they do not believei n, i have afriend who was goingto be a Priest, instead he chooose another field years ago, he and his wife go to church on a regularbasis, observe lent, go to midnight mass on CHristmas EVe, but they also nboth believe that there is nothing wrong with Gay Marriages, or Abortions, so someonecan be relgious andstill havetheir own belifs
I even asked my friend one day, you have no issue with gay marriage, or aborotion how does that comflict with your religiousbeliefs and they told me nobody can dictate to them what to think, believe or say and that Jesus she said acceptsthem becausethey beieve in her and her husband and adult kids
it is avery tough situation, i only hopethat as peole look at the whole world and see these acts of terrosism for axample that they realise, that for every 5 Terrorists they are 10 Islamics who do not condone these acts, the world never seems both side of religion they assume that al Islamicsare terrorists because of what the Bin LAdens of the world do i believe it is called steroetypin,g we as humanity need to spend more time learning about other an less time condming everyone
I also mentiondi nanotherthread, one pseron said the thread was going nowhere he wasdonewithi t and the Modsneed to closei t out
I told him, ok, you are a Miltary man, you are ot where in the srtvice you fought for our freedom., but parto f that freedom is freedom of expression and rather then closing ou the thread if you do not likewhat poele posted simply do notreply, but dso not deprive everyone else here ofthe Freedom to reply, amazingly enough an hour later hereplied "Yea, maybe we should keep this thread open"
if you do not like what someonedoes ignore it if you ake offense to something that was said let the personknow, you cn do so without insultingthem, flamingthem ect fihtingfor FReedom as our Service Men and Women do, means more then just Freedom, it means our guarantee of expressing ourselvesand not worrying about going to jail, or bein black listed freedom or speach and expression ECEPT FOR THE 2 thing NOT ocvered by the constitution are all part of the freedomswe enjoy, that is FREEDOMS noyt singlat but plural
I do not support the war in Iraq, but does that make me less of an American the my neighbors, NO it simply alows me to express my feeling, i support the troops just not the war itself, butt hat does not make me any less patriotic or loving my country less then someone who supports both the war and our troops, Freedom of Speach Expreson arewonderful, we may very well be the only nation on earth that outside of 2 things you can NOT shout in public, i am free to do as i wish and say as i wish without fear of arrest and jail if you wantto knowwhat those 2 things are that are not guranteeed under our constitution pm me and i will tell you, i preffer not to post in a public forum andfor some to takewhat i say out of context no matterhow basic thses 2 things are, but trsut me there are 2 specific things that freedon of expression and speach do not cover and thanks fpr your kind remarks about my posts