Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
I don't see NO discussion ON THE (original) SUBJECT!
Instead I see a fight about WHAT is one allowed to say freely.

Where do you see a fight about what what one is allowed to say freely?

And before you answer that, head over to the General Talk section and read the updated Code of Conduct.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
C'mon people: You are all into hurting people or getting hurt or dominate someone or submit to someone or humiliate someone or get humiliated by someone...

And you expect that when talking about it this won't occur???

You've gotta be kidding!

No. I 'm not kidding. I don't want to see people get insulted on these forums. There's a firm difference between humiliation and degradation. Just like there's a difference between BDSM and abuse.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
For some people it might even be a thrill to play edgy... Who said words can't be edgy?
They sting as bad as any cat'o'nine or single tale, anytime when used probably!

You're right, they can. However, it's how you use your words that indicates the effect they will have. Calling someone fat and ugly or stupid or a big ugly cow is NOT humiliation. It's degradation, pure and simple and that, my friend, is verbal abuse


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Now this Forum is Cyberspace, right? How can you truly expect those word-man (or women!) not to whip with words? They'll do it, at least once in a while - and its okay... this is the BDSM-LIBRARY-FORUM, forgot???

So? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Are you trying to say that just because we're online that we don't deserve to be treated and respected like 'normal' people do?

Or are you trying to say that, just because we are members of a BDSM community that we should just expect to be treated like shit and accept it?

Please clarify that statement for me, so I can understand better and not go with my first instinct on this, which is to get really offended.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Now when someone gets hurt, stand up and say so. Any grown up individual will give you sorrow and shelter, and help you overcome your pain and pick you up again. Just like you'd do in a session where something went wrong. (That never happened to YOU? GIVE ME A BREAK, BIG FELLA, LADY WOW!)

So what is wrong asking a question like the original one???

What's wrong with it? Well, first off, it's insulting. Secondly, it violates the Code of Conduct. Thirdly, it refers to the members here in a derrogatory sense and insinuates that the women here are not beautiful, each in their own way. There's a big difference between asking why women in BDSM are all fat and ugly and asking why some women in BDSM are overweight or may not take care of themselves. The devil is in the details.

It's not the question that's the issue, it's how the question was raised in the first place. Had it been asked in a manner which was not outright insulting and degrading, then it probably would have been fine for discussion. As it is, it works okay, although a lot of people are put off by the title of the thread.

Try this at home: Walk up to your mistress, look her right in the eye and ask her why she's a fat, ugly sow and see how she reacts. That should give you some indication of what was wrong with the original question. (Not that I'm saying she is, I'm just using this as a hypothetical example.)

Besides, as has been stated before, the person that started this thread has shown up in several different nicknames and always started trouble. He's been banned. It doesn't matter what his name is. His nickname wasn't banned, the person was. There is a difference, contrary to what you might believe.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
One could raise so many questions:

Supposedly statistics say that people who are drawn into BDSM as adults have been abused as Childs to an above average rate than adults from any other groups not enjoying BDSM as adults.

Statistically speaking, it is true. Many women in the BDSM lifestyle are abused ealier in life. Whether that is the 'cause' of their interest in BDSM or simply just something that shaped their lives is a topic for another discussion


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Now must asking such questions as a thread-starter like "Why is it that people who have been abused in their childhood are drawn into BDSM Lifestyle as adults? automatically drive the community and the moderators into a "You'll be banned if you insult people... hey I know someone who might be insulted by that statement/question ... I'm insulted by that question, take it back!"-mode?

It doesn't, because that would genuinely interest people as a topic for discussion. In fact, I think I will start that thread when I am done here.

As for being insulting, the CoC is pretty clear on that.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Why not openly discuss the subject, maybe there is something to it for us to reveal!

Talking about the subject and a question that has no definite answer yet, might make us all smarter because while talking we may just come up with an answer!

I agree. Let's openly discuss the topic. That's why this thread, and others, are here. So, the subject matter can be discussed.

There's nothing at all wrong with discussion. There's plenty wrong with outright abuse.


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Fighting about a question of conduct is not getting anybody anywhere!

Who's fighting about questions of conduct?


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Lets not call each other names but -damn!- allow to raise questions and let the community discuss things that are of interest to them! (Which is most likely the case if someone starts a thread raising such question).

Cutting subjects like this off (just because someone might or is offended) makes the BDSM community no better than those who still call us perverts!

What are you talking about? You did happen to notice that this thread was still in existence, right? it has not been closed or deleted or molested in any way. So, where are you getting these ridiculous and unfounded claims from?


Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
Remember what we tend to tell people who call our activities pervers and sick and all?
Yes, we tell 'em to mind their own business, to look away!
So if there is a thread about something that someone out there just might take as an insult... tell that someone to stay away from that particular thread, look into other threads that are more like it for that someone. There are examples of threads where this works just fine (e.g. the thread on scat - people who feel offended don't read, don't post there)

Again... What???

I don't want people to look away from me like I'm some Elephant Man, just because I'm a practicing member of the BDSM lifestyle. Quite the opposite, I want people lookng me right in the eye. I want people asking me questions. I want people understanding that what I do is not abuse, it's not degrading to women and it's not only poracticed by rapists and psychos like people see on cop shows.

At least it's not degrading to women until we, as the staff of this website, allow people to walk in here and start degrading the women of this site. As long as I am here and moderating, it's not going to happen.

And no, I'm not going to tell someone to stay away from a thread that's openly insulting. I'm going to follow the CoC and give the person being insulting a warning and tell him to tone it down. Why? Because there's a huge difference between not finding the topic of conversation to your liking and the topic of conversation being abusive and insulting. Sure, if you don't like the scat thread, don't read it, but if you're a woman and you don't want to be called fat and uguly, then tell a moderator so the person writing the thread can be talked to.

Originally posted by WANDA's_toy
So, let's not call each other names, let's not fight about codes of conducts (hey, this ain't the Ed Sullivan Show!) lets talk about the subjects instead!

Glad to get comments.

That's exactly what we've been trying to do.