Advice to a submissive on proper attitude and thinking.

[silver_one {Leaman}]

Understood Sir.

[silver_one {Leaman}]

I'm trying to gather some information regarding having a word as a safty net or to take your mind to a safe place. Could anyone give me some insight on whether they have and use it, and if not what do you do and how does it feel not having one?
Thanks!

[ks17]

I don't use a safe word. I trust my Master to know what i can handle and what i can't. He knows me and my limits and i trust him completely. Even before i was His slave, i never used the safe word. i couldn't bring myself to use it, it felt like i was betraying the trust i had for Him. W/we have friends that use safe words, they use words that would never come up during anything sexual such as "Montana" or "Hippo". It works for them, but not for U/us

[DontBother]

I'm trying to gather some information regarding having a word as a safty net or to take your mind to a safe place. Could anyone give me some insight on whether they have and use it, and if not what do you do and how does it feel not having one?
Thanks!

You don't have to have safe words. Instead every word can have their original meaning. No means No, please means please and Yes master means Yes master.

[Kellie]

I feel that there are many different levels of submissiveness. I personally feel that as a sub who made the decision to serve should do whatever their master says. It pleases me to make the master happy. My happiness is to serve not to question. A master is there to teach and treat their cumbucket slave their true place and we as subs should feel honored to get such high privilages from our Masters. I think we need to thank. Our master for everything they do for us since in the end they are fufilling the one true want and need we asked for.

[hippie child]

I feel that there are many different levels of submissiveness. I personally feel that as a sub who made the decision to serve should do whatever their master says. It pleases me to make the master happy. My happiness is to serve not to question. A master is there to teach and treat their cumbucket slave their true place and we as subs should feel honored to get such high privilages from our Masters. I think we need to thank. Our master for everything they do for us since in the end they are fufilling the one true want and need we asked for.

This raises a valid point for discussion.

As a submissive, at what point do you stop being "honored by such privilages" when the way your Master/Mistress teaches has become abusive? (Understanding each relationship has it's own set of perameters.)

I know that what I deem as abusive differs from another's stand point.
Given that, personal safety is an absolute must, be it physical, mental or emotional. To blindly accept and be "honored" by treatment that is less than acceptable by the limits established, because Master/Mistress has had a bad day or decides for whatever personal gain, to abuse those limits is incomprehensible.
They are in a position of power. With that power comes a great responsibility. Neglecting or abusing that power does not make a good Master/Mistress/s relationship ever.

This is only my opinion.

[ks17]

This raises a valid point for discussion.

Given that, personal safety is an absolute must, be it physical, mental or emotional. To blindly accept and be "honored" by treatment that is less than acceptable by the limits established, because Master/Mistress has had a bad day or decides for whatever personal gain, to abuse those limits is incomprehensible.
They are in a position of power. With that power comes a great responsibility. Neglecting or abusing that power does not make a good Master/Mistress/s relationship ever.

I agree with you that personal safety is a must. i have been honest with my Master about what i need from Him and in turn, He was honest with me about what He needed from me. W/we built our relationship out of that honesty, which is why i am comfortable trusting him and not having a safeword. If He were ever to break my trust and intentionally hurt me in ways that W/we haven't discussed, it would break our contract and end our relationship. I think it's important to base any relationship, but especially a Master/sub/slave relationship, on trust and honesty. At least for me, as a collared slave, knowing W/we had that discussion, it is now very easy to submit to my Master, and He in turn has accepted this great responsibility.

[Kellie]

This raises a valid point for discussion.

As a submissive, at what point do you stop being "honored by such privilages" when the way your Master/Mistress teaches has become abusive? (Understanding each relationship has it's own set of perameters.)

I know that what I deem as abusive differs from another's stand point.
Given that, personal safety is an absolute must, be it physical, mental or emotional. To blindly accept and be "honored" by treatment that is less than acceptable by the limits established, because Master/Mistress has had a bad day or decides for whatever personal gain, to abuse those limits is incomprehensible.
They are in a position of power. With that power comes a great responsibility. Neglecting or abusing that power does not make a good Master/Mistress/s relationship ever.

This is only my opinion.

And that's where the different levels come in to in my opinion. I look at it as a subs job to please their master how their master sees fit. So if a master or mistress is having a bad day and wants to take it out on their sub with a can or whatever they choose I feel its good since its making them happy. But u have to trust that your master or mistress will always follow the basic rules such as no permanent damage. Of course I love pain so my opinon may be looked at different. My body feels like sweet sensitive tasks are torture and abusive

[Ozme52]

I don't use a safe word. I trust my Master to know what i can handle and what i can't. He knows me and my limits and i trust him completely. Even before i was His slave, i never used the safe word. i couldn't bring myself to use it, it felt like i was betraying the trust i had for Him. W/we have friends that use safe words, they use words that would never come up during anything sexual such as "Montana" or "Hippo". It works for them, but not for U/us

The same conversations repeat themselves over and over again... as do the same pros and cons and reasoning. But I never hear anyone espouse my particular perspective (and I've said it many times.)

ks, consider this. You serve your master but never provide him with an outlet to just let himself go? He always has to read you and carefully tread that fine line that marks your day-to-day level of comfort? Why not gift him with a safeword you will use if he goes beyond your capacity to absorb... and let him freely use you without having to monitor you or himself. Let him revel in a release of his restraints and go explore his own limits as he uses you, with the knowledge that YOU will monitor yourself so that he can go farther than he might otherwise go.

Trust me. He's holding back. Perhaps not having a safeword and promising to use it is in fact, imo, selfish of the submisive or slave. Perhaps not having a safeword is an insidious way to maintain a level of control because it stops ones master from doing what s/he perhaps wishes to do.

Consider it a "present" to him. Like a birthday certificate. "My gift to you. A safeword that will allow you to use me without regard so that you can be all you wish to be today." Maybe you'll find it even more enjoyable than you expect. Maybe you'll find you can take more than you thought for him.

My girl has often said, "I was about to use my safeword and I thought... "wait just a moment longer" and that was when the endorphins really hit me and it got even better".

Better and much more satisfying for both of us.

[ks17]

Ozme52,
i had not thought of it that way. it will definitely be something i present to Him. if He wishes for me to use one, then i will gladly do so. thanks!

[Ozme52]

I agree with you that personal safety is a must. i have been honest with my Master about what i need from Him and in turn, He was honest with me about what He needed from me. W/we built our relationship out of that honesty, which is why i am comfortable trusting him and not having a safeword. If He were ever to break my trust and intentionally hurt me in ways that W/we haven't discussed, it would break our contract and end our relationship. I think it's important to base any relationship, but especially a Master/sub/slave relationship, on trust and honesty. At least for me, as a collared slave, knowing W/we had that discussion, it is now very easy to submit to my Master, and He in turn has accepted this great responsibility.

And that's where the different levels come in to in my opinion. I look at it as a subs job to please their master how their master sees fit. So if a master or mistress is having a bad day and wants to take it out on their sub with a can or whatever they choose I feel its good since its making them happy. But u have to trust that your master or mistress will always follow the basic rules such as no permanent damage. Of course I love pain so my opinon may be looked at different. My body feels like sweet sensitive tasks are torture and abusive

I guess my point is that verbal conversations can only set (both of) your perceived limits and a safeword allows you both to push your perceptions.

Think about it.

[thir]

ks, consider this. You serve your master but never provide him with an outlet to just let himself go? He always has to read you and carefully tread that fine line that marks your day-to-day level of comfort? Why not gift him with a safeword you will use if he goes beyond your capacity to absorb... and let him freely use you without having to monitor you or himself. Let him revel in a release of his restraints and go explore his own limits as he uses you, with the knowledge that YOU will monitor yourself so that he can go farther than he might otherwise go.

You have a good point there, Ozme.

People say: I don't want a safeword, it is all about trust, and I trust my dom.

Provocative comment comming up: I have experienced a number of subs who really meant : "I leave it to you to figure out what I can handle, it's easier and more exciting that way, because I can feel like a real slave with no bounderies. Of course, if you get my reactions wrong, it is all your fault and you are a Bad dom."

Result, as Ozme says, is sometimes that the dom becomes a service instrument for the sub!

Now, obviously a lot of people who say they do not want a safe word are Not like this. But I agree with Ozme that if the dom wants a safeword, then that's how it is going to be!

[hippie child]

You have a good point there, Ozme.

People say: I don't want a safeword, it is all about trust, and I trust my dom.

Provocative comment comming up: I have experienced a number of subs who really meant : "I leave it to you to figure out what I can handle, it's easier and more exciting that way, because I can feel like a real slave with no bounderies. Of course, if you get my reactions wrong, it is all your fault and you are a Bad dom."

Result, as Ozme says, is sometimes that the dom becomes a service instrument for the sub!

Now, obviously a lot of people who say they do not want a safe word are Not like this. But I agree with Ozme that if the dom wants a safeword, then that's how it is going to be!

I agree with this whole heartedly.

When establishing perameters a safe word is of vital importance. It shows a level of true of servitude and communication that would other wise be lacking.
When you leave an unestablished limit, you are in fact not fully giving in to servitued in that you're playing a guessing game with your D. If you're playing, then it's not a true commitment to them.
Also, I don't feel you're being true to yourself as a submissive by not agreeing to this level of committment, in that you are not truly looking at your own real self and taking responsibility for yourself.
Both parties have responsibilities to each other and to themselves, and those responsibilities are of equal importance.

Again, this is just my own opinion.

[denuseri]

Safewords are generally used by those whose practice of BDSM falls under the guiding philosophy of safe, sane and consensual. Those who practice the more permissive philosophy of risk-aware consensual kink or who come from older traditions may abandon the use of safewords, especially those that practice forms of edgeplay or extreme forms of dominance and submission. In such cases, the choice to give up the use of safewords is a consensual act on the part of the bottom or submissive.

It is usually used by the submissive as a way of telling a dominant that they are not used to playing with that things have eaither went too far and need to stop or are getting close to needing to stop, but can be used by all participants in a scene, including tops, dungeon monitors at play parties, and sometimes even observers.

A safeword makes it possible for a bottom to say "No" or "Stop" and pretend as much as he or she wants without really meaning it while still having a safe way of indicating they seriously need the scene to stop. In fact, whenn they originally came out with them this was all they were used for.

Since a scene may become too intense for a submissive partner to remember what the safeword is and or be able to even utter it, the unltimate onis of responsibility for saftey has traditionally lay with the dominant in control of the scene.

In practice commonly the words safeword or red are also used as safewords. They are often the default at many play parties, or respected as a safeword in addition to any negotiated safeword. A dungeon monitor would likely expect either of those words to be respected.

Some partners may also have different gradations of safewords, such as green to mean "Okay" or even "harder" or "more", yellow to mean "slow down" or "stop doing that" without stopping the scene, and red to mean "stop the scene". In this fashion, a dominant partner may ask the submissive partner "What is your color?" to check with a submissive partner without having to stop the scene.

In other circumstances the safeword may not be a "word" at all, which can be useful if the submissive if fully lucid when the submissive is bound and gagged. In these instances a signal such as dropping a bell or a ball, the snapping of fingers, or opening and closing both hands repeatedly or making three clear and rhythmic grunts as a pre-defined signal to stop or otherwise slow down the scene. There is also a convention of tops to put a finger in the "bottom's" hand as a sort of "check in" when the "bottom" has become non-verbal, such as may happen as they reach subspace. In this scenario the "bottom" squeezes the "top's" finger to indicate OK.

A red safeword is only used when one of the partners needs it to end a scene. Many submissive partners may see the use of a safeword as being weak, and will push themselves past their "comfort" zone to please their partner. This may allow a submissive partner to expand their boundaries and learn what they are capable of but may also expose them to risk if they are pushed too far.

Additionally, many dominant partners may interpret the use of a safeword as a failure on their part, i.e., failing to understand body language, to know their partner, or loss of control. This is also why gradations of safewords and/or actions that signify a scene may be becoming too much are commonly used (i.e.,Yellow) so that the partners can safely adjust the scene before crossing boundaries.

It is considered important in many parts of the BDSM community that the use of safewords should remain "no-fault" so that participants feel encouraged to use it if necessary. Discouraging the use of safewords runs the risk of scenes becoming non-consensual, harming trust between partners and potentially damaging to their mental and emotional state.

While many in the current BDSM community consider safewords to be an essential part of safe play, there is a contingent that chooses to occasionally play without using safewords. They rely on the dominant partner to monitor the condition of the submissive partner and stop if necessary, at their discretion. In such circumstances the "bottom" or submissive must have consented not to have control over the duration of the scene in advance; this is often referred to as consensual nonconsent. Also, some people who routinely play with each other may agree to stop using safe words because they know each other's boundaries and are able to read each others' body language well. In any case "consensual nonconsent" is considered a risky and advanced activity by those who are used to reliance upon them.

In any event:


A safeword cannot take the place of common sense.

Relying on a safeword alone to keep you safe is foolishness; it will not help you to avoid dangerous situations in the first place, and it will not help protect you from a careless, unskilled, or malicious partner. It sometimes happens that people believe they are safe as long as they have a safeword, and become lax about the other factors in safety, such as the skill, experience, and attitude of their partner. A safeword is just a tool, and it should not be the only one, or even the main one, you use to keep you safe!

That's what I mean when i say safewords are neither necessary nor sufficient. They are not necessary at all times, such as when engaging in non-D/s play or when engaging in activities with a partner you know extremely intimately; and they are not sufficient, in that they will not always protect you. Used properly, they are a valuable tool, particularly with partners you may not have a great deal of experience with. But they are tools, not religions; don't over-depend on them, and don't assume that you must always use them at all times.

The last thing they should be used for is as some kind of crutch for a dominant wishing to remove the unlitimate onis of resposibility to keep things safe from their own shoulders.

Afterall it is the dominant who is supposed to be in control of the situation at all times in the first place.

[Ozme52]

Safe Sane and Consensual. Eh denu? I disagree, a SSC relationship needs it the least. Defining Safe and Sane and making those decisions in advance and consensually creates well defined boundaries and those relationships are in the least need of a safeword.

I'll go back to my argument that a safeword allows the exporation of boundaries that are unknowable. Safewords are for those who take risk with their bdsm.

But I will admit, I'm taking liberties with the semantics. (You can get me to stop... just say yoiur you-know-what word.)

[denuseri]

I cannot help that the whole safe word things origins are also so very closely tied to the SSC thing, I didnt invent eaither consept.

I am sorry Oz; you will never get me to agree that a safe word is more or less than what it is, nor will you get me to agee that common sence shouldnt previal over the use there of or that using one entails relieving the dominant of the onis of ultimate responsibility for the safty of his or her submisive.

[Pegao]

lol theres that common sense word again..

Defining Safe and Sane and making those decisions in advance and consensually creates well defined boundaries and those relationships are in the least need of a safeword.

i think making decisions in advance.. can definitely change how a 'y-k-w-word' is needed or used.. and would say.. everything is more fun if its decided in advance.. what boundaries for ssc are for each person.. to make sure not only.. is everybody on the same page.. but using the same definitions too.. because theres always different ways to interpret anything.. like this conversation shows

lol fuck.. thats what i get for hanging out w/stickler for semantics..

[hippie child]

Then it all goes back to each individual relationship, the kind of relationship they have and their own set of sensibilities.
With some it's moot, others it's required.

Would anyone agree to that?

[Pegao]

Then it all goes back to each individual relationship, the kind of relationship they have and their own set of sensibilities.
With some it's moot, others it's required.

Would anyone agree to that?

lol yup. pretty much all relationships.. end up getting defined by the people in them anyway.. some things are required.. some arent.

[DeityorDevil]

lol fuck.. thats what i get for hanging out w/stickler for semantics..

I prefer to think of it as being a stickler for elucidation.

And well said hippie, it's up to each pairing to determine their boundaries and limits.

[hippie child]

I would agree with that also.
I've read a lot of postings here and tend to think denusei to be more a stickler for clarification rather than the meaning of words.

[denuseri]

Thanks hippie!

Though if we are not going to agree to what the words themselves we are useing mean to begin with...well things wont be very clear lol.

[hippie child]

Hahahahaha...you are quite right!

[amina70]

i am in an online relationship,and it can be hard sometimes since i miss Him and really hope to meet Him in real.i know online sessions are not like real...Tying myself up is not same as if He does it..Wonder how it will feel since i am very new with this and my Master will be the first i will experience it with...Kinda bdsm "virgin",hehe...i'm bit nervous....Will be a total new experince.