Occupy Wall Street Movement

[lucy]

Maybe if they were actually WORKING, instead of sitting on their asses protesting, they wouldn't be GETTING poorer!

Wrong. Even if they'd work their asses off, some of them would be getting poorer. It's fucked up economics put into effect by fucked up economists who thought their theories would work in the real world. Well, they did, but only for a very few, and a few very crooked.

[Thorne]

Wrong. Even if they'd work their asses off, some of them would be getting poorer. It's fucked up economics put into effect by fucked up economists who thought their theories would work in the real world. Well, they did, but only for a very few, and a few very crooked.

That's the simple excuse, sure. But I think it has to do more with people not learning how to handle what money they have. Just because you CAN get credit, doesn't mean you SHOULD get credit. Borrowing money to buy a car so you can get to work is one thing. Borrowing money to buy a jet-ski is something else again. Buying necessities on credit may be necessary sometimes. Buying luxury items on credit is a bad way to go.

I just don't understand the mentality of those who want the rich to give them money. I'm not saying that there aren't crooked people out there, but there are a lot of people who have earned what they have through hard work. NOT by standing around protesting people who DO the work.

[lucy]

True, jet skis are a dumb investment.
However, I was talking about Switzerland, where things aren't (yet) so fucked up as in other places. Or Germany. I mean, when a perfectly rooted bus driver leaves Munich to come working in Switzerland because she barely gets along with the salary she's being paid in Munich, there's something wrong, isn't there?
It's not friggin' Zimbabwe or Mali or Bangladesh, it's Germany. The south, even. Bavaria, probably one of the richest regions in the world.

I just don't understand the mentality of those who want the rich to give them money. I'm not saying that there aren't crooked people out there, but there are a lot of people who have earned what they have through hard work.

Wrong again. Most likely they didn't have to bend one finger to get that filthy rich. Most likely, they inherited it. And if not, they most likely had a lot to begin with. In today's economy, hard work very seldom gets you rich. There might be a very few exceptions, but they indeed are a very small number. Insignificantly small, even.
Oh, and did you know that when it comes to make a career by hard work or to make that oh-so-hailed 'American Dream' come true, America is a very bad place to do it in, at least among the OECD-countries? Wonder why that would be the case ... maybe it's got to do with the US having the least equality of opportunities.

And if that's all not yet enough: Taking from the middle class and giving the rich (which is actually what happens now in a lot of countries) is very, very, very dumb and short sighted. Because in the end it's the middle class which keeps a country prospering and running. The very rich can go everywhere they want. Especially since their dough is already there anyway....

[Thorne]

when a perfectly rooted bus driver leaves Munich to come working in Switzerland because she barely gets along with the salary she's being paid in Munich, there's something wrong, isn't there?

Perhaps there is, but the question is, What is wrong? Perhaps the cost of living is higher in Germany? Are there benefits to living in Germany that she might have to forego in Switzerland? Do they really pay that much more for bus drivers in Switzerland?

Most likely they didn't have to bend one finger to get that filthy rich. Most likely, they inherited it.

All right, so some people inherited their money. But somewhere along the line, someone had to earn it, right? (I'm not talking about royalty, here, those who inherit there position and wealth for no other reason than the family name and history.) I mean, while I'm not rich by any means, I do hope that when I die I'll have enough to pass on to my kids, to give them a boost in life. What's wrong with that?

In today's economy, hard work very seldom gets you rich.

Depends on the work, doesn't it? Yeah, digging ditches isn't likely to make you a fortune, but working hard to get a good education will do more for you than spending several weeks protesting someone else who got an education. Every job I ever had, I started low and worked my way up. If I'd continued my college studies and gotten my bachelor's degree, chances are I would have gotten even higher. But that's my own fault, isn't it?

There might be a very few exceptions, but they indeed are a very small number. Insignificantly small, even.

I wouldn't call people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs insignificant. They built their empires up from nothing, and have earned every cent they've gotten. Or people like Julia Roberts, who worked her way through bit parts and has become one of the premier actresses of our time. Even sports figures, most of whom I dislike, have had to work to get where they are. We can't blame them if people are willing to pay them ridiculous salaries to play games. No, I think the number of people who inherit their wealth and manage to keep it, or even increase it, are more rare than those who work to get it in the first place.

Oh, and did you know that when it comes to make a career by hard work or to make that oh-so-hailed 'American Dream' come true, America is a very bad place to do it in

I'll grant you that it's not easy, and yes, the economy now makes it even harder. My own kids are struggling, and I sometimes wonder how they'll ever manage to make it. But most of that is their own fault. They had the opportunity to go to school and they turned it down. Which rich person should I blame for that?

Taking from the middle class and giving the rich (which is actually what happens now in a lot of countries) is very, very, very dumb and short sighted. Because in the end it's the middle class which keeps a country prospering and running.

I agree with you here, certainly. But taking it from the rich and giving it to the poor isn't the answer, either. Given the choice of working just enough to get by or working very hard to make something of myself only to have some bureaucrat come along and take it all away to give to someone else, which do you think would benefit me more? Why should I start a business and create jobs if I'm going to be punished for being successful? Why should I bother to develop an innovative technology, providing jobs for many of my neighbors, if it's only going to keep me in the poor house? If you're going to provide for everyone's needs, regardless of their worth, what's the incentive for actually doing anything worthwhile? As soon as you get a little ahead the government's going to come and take it away to give to someone more needy than you. You'd be better off sitting at home and collecting from the government. Until the whole thing collapses. In about two weeks.