Yep tourguide is very articulate and I will hopefully ... one day ... be able to do half as good as she does.

I left gor for exactly the reasons you have stated Tourguide. The ego [as i mentioned in my 1st post] and the lack of respect. The lack of looking outside the box. The lack of being able to discuss the flaws in the philosophy. The fact that Norman contradicts himself many many times through out the series and the fact that most "Goreans" argue continuously about these.

And yes, I did say I was in a BDSM relationship, not just a DS one. There are several aspect of fetish and SM in our play that heighten our experiences and add to our fun, and we don't feel we have to leave them out because some book tells us we do. We have the freedom of will to do what we please without worrying that we're being "true" to the fantasy. So, why would someone choose to shackle themselves in such a way?
People choose to shackle themselves in such a way because they can and want to. Didn't you say in your 1st post here that people have choices? ...... It is their thing, their fetish. They are true to the books cos that is what they want. I dont knock other roleplaying scenes such as the sub who dresses in a diaper or the sub that likes to dress as a japanese school girl. I dont profess to understand the SM. That doesn't mean its any less important. I totally agree that when they say "the Gorean way is superior", that they are being egotistical. Its as good as any other. Not better than.

You dont have to leave out what makes this fun and exciting for you. In the same light why should someone put it in when it doesn't make it fun for them. We are not all into S/M. Yes knock the ego of those who cant let the fantasy go, but dont knock the fantasy or the want of that fantasy as an erotic roleplay. Some people do want it. You dont like to mix the D&D with your scene and that is cool. But some people do.

As I stated in my original post, I respect the desire for fantasy. I won't call it a need, because I truly fell people can live without many of them. Fantasies are great, though. I have a few that are my favorites. However, I do know where the fantasy ends and the reality begins. In my experience, that's where a lot of Goreans seem to fall short. As I mentioned before, I have known many Goreans online and off (the online ones are the worst, BTW) and many of them seem to share the same attitude, ego and experience. Most Goreans I have seen will enter a normal BDSM chat or forum and immediately insist their wishes be respected, people refer to them in Gorean terms, and they will actually try to assimilate that chat or forum into the Gorean "way." I think we even had a Gorean guy here on these forums previously that insisted we open a Gorean-only section of the forums and chat.
That is what i hated about Gor chat rooms and reminds me why i left it. I like some aspects and parts of the philosophy. I do know however that it is roleplay and wish that most of them did to.

The Gorean philosophy of not being ashamed of being female and that a woman can show her sexuality was what drew me to it. A rape makes you think you are the worst and dirtiest whore alive. My selfworth had been thrown out the window and ground to dust which blew away in the wind. I was ashamed of being a woman. I am not anymore because of this lifestyle. It has its place in my heart and i know some of it is just roleplay. However some parts can be brought into the reality. ... just because you dont agree with it, doesn't mean there is no point to it. For some it does have a point.

Some but not all Goreans do tend to have this ego that is bigger than the fantasy and believe it is the one and only true way to follow. If you can look past that, its quite interesting.