gorean information needed

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Hello,

I'm not an "Old Guard" dominant.
I'm not a "BDSM Purist."
I'm not even a seriously strict dominant.

When I read that people seriously treat the Gor series of fiction as a BDSM bible, I cringe.

bug's original quote was: "i am interested in learning a little gorean" From that one line, one could easily assume that she would like to learn the Gorean language, that she is interested in reading the books, or finding out more about the accumulated works of John Norman. However, as we are on a BDSM site, that does seem a dubious assumption. So, here we are. Instead of being an informative thread on Gorean sites, fiction, and John Norman's works, we instead have an opinion forum regarding the "Gorean" BDSM cult.

Okay. Well enough.

I will start my addition to this opinion piece by stating clearly and openly that John Norman's Counter-Earth collection of books was a well-written, if not a bit contrived, work of series fictions that ran from the late 1960s to the mid 1980s. Norman pumped out one 200-350 page "Gor" novel every year for 25 years and did a fairly decent job of creating a well-thought-out science fiction world of fantasy and adventure. (Tolkien's world was better, but nobody that I know of has started a BDSM cult surrounding his world as of yet.) His books were so well-received in the 70s and 80s that he attracted such cover artists as Boris Vallejo and Christos Achilleos. I very much enjoyed reading the collected works as what they are, works of science fiction and fantasy.

I, however, seriously question the sanity of those that see them as BDSM bibles and the "stone tablets" by which to establish a sect of quasi-BDSM. Why? There is ONE really good answer to that question: Consensuality.

Consensuality has always been a founding pillar of BDSM. In the old days of SSC (safe, sane, and consensual) play, the element of consensuality HAD to be respected. Even in the new days of RACK (risk-aware consensual kink), the consensuality element is not lost. That is because it MUST exist in ANY BDSM relationship. Without exception, bondage, discipline, domination, submission or slavery without consent is RAPE or ABUSE!

If there's one thing all the "Gorean" sect seem to forget, it is that the slaves of Gor very, very rarely are slaves by their own consent. Sure, Talena consented to slavery to avoid her father's wrath, but that's about the only example I can think of out of 25 books. For the most part, the slaves of Gor are kidnapped and raped and eventually come to accept their submission, and even (in a very Stockholm syndrome) kind of way, come to love it.

Okay. Fine. That happens. I've written stories that ended that way, or were supposed to end that way if I'd ever finished them. I can respect that to some degree. However, that's where the lines of fantasy and reality become blurred to the typical Gorean, it seems.

To then have the girl think that they can be mouthy or disrespectful and walk away with no consequence is the one thing that proves if a girl is a true submissive or not.

Well, no. To have a girl think she can be mouthy and disrespectful and then walk away from it without consequence is realistic. These are not the Plains of Turia, we do not live in a caste society, and enforced slavery is illegal. For a girl to be mouthy and disrespectful is her prerogative. If she chooses to be submissive, then she can equally choose not to be anymore at any time, because that's her choice!

Gor is about disapline and submission. Not about s/m or pain. I have read 16 of the books and not one girl in there wanted to be whipped.

Well, duh! Not to sound disrespectful of your opinion, but I would dare to say that probably 100% of women who are kidnapped and raped don't want to be whipped, too! Common sense would sort of dictate that, I would think. And "Gorean submission" is about pain. Look at all the examples: disciplinary whippings, brandings, forced piercings. The list goes on, but I'm trying not to write a novel of my own. So, I would directly contradict this statement and say if masochism is your thing, "Gorean training" may be just right for you.

Another of the things that make me feel Goreans might have lost touch with reality is the fantasy element of it all.

this one has gorean-foundation-training

Yes, that one line made that obvious. In fact, you could have not even admitted it openly and many of us would still have known. The use of "this one" and "this girl" and "this slave" have insinuated their way into our chat rooms, forums and even some of our real-life scenes as a direct result of Gorean fantasy. I had a submissive once, a really nice girl, and we tried that referring to oneself in the third person thing for awhile. It worked for about ten minutes until she finally just said, "Look, this is just too fucking awkward." and we quit.

I recognize the need for fantasy in BDSM play. I really do. And I'm sure Gorean fantasy is a great one, but I must say that, nearly to the individual, every Gorean that I have ever met in real-life or online (and I've know quite a few IMNSLE) have carried the fantasy of it way too far. It's almost like they're showing off, it's so open, overt and conspicuous. It shows a resounding amount of ego, and in most cases it's rude.

Speaking of ego:

In this one's experienced but still humble opinion, there is no better training or level of obedience than that of a gorean slave...

Does this NOT just smack of ego and pride? Wouldn't a "true Gorean slave girl" be punished for such a display of pride and ego?

In reality, I know many submissives, male and female, that would hotly refute that claim. Your training is what YOU make of it, not what name you attach to it or what label you slap on it. I could just as easily make the claim that toilet whores have the best level of obedience because they have the discipline to eat feces. It still doesn't make it anything more than just an opinion.

As I said, I respect everyone's opinions of things like Gor. I just wish they didn't always seem to come with all the added baggage. The simple fact is: There is no "one true" type of submissive. Submissives, or slaves, or whatever you want to call them are all just variations of the same theme. There is no "perfect" level of obedience, because everyone has something they will not, or at least should not, do. Whether it's for matters of health, legality, or otherwise, all "real" submissives should have some limits.

And all "real" dominants should have some common sense, but they don't. The first and foremost concern of any real dominant should be the safety of his submissive. So, placing one's slave in an atmosphere of non-consesuality, even if it's an assumed atmosphere of non-consensuality, demonstrates a lack of concern for that slave, doesn't it? To assume that a slave should just submit to the whims of her master and like it, regardless of the consequence is completely deranged and egotistical.

Contracts, negotiations, limits, and safewords do not exist in the "true Gorean lifestyle," and because of that Goreans violate yet another of the tested tenets of the BDSM foundation: Safety. In the SSC system, not negotiating limits and not having a way out of a situation if it becomes dangerous or too intense is unsafe play. In the RACK system, one cannot consensually submit to the risks if they are not first apprised of those risks and offered a chance to set a limit. There again, the Gorean fantasy aspect trumps the reality of the situation. A submissive that is not allowed to say no and have that word respected is in a dangerous and unhealthy place. She may find herself dead one day because of her fantasy.

Like I said before, fantasy is great. I just wish more Goreans would treat Gor like a fantasy and less like a reality. Appreciate Gor for what it is: a work of fiction. Don't appreciate it for what it's not: an alternative to safe and consensual BDSM.

And that's my opinion in a not-so-short nutshell.